Serbian leader won't apologize for wartime nationalism

[Vožd]

We are tired of War topics... 23 years passed... can we stop talking about yugoslav wars for once?

Completly agreed.

[Jana]

Nothing happened to them. The real number of Serbs killed in Jasenovac was 0.

That's not true, but it certanly wasn't 700 000 or million, as some lunatics sugest.

Current number is around 80 000, of that around 50 000 Serbs.

[Dragan Ciganovic]

That's not true, but it certanly wasn't 700 000 or million, as some lunatics sugest.

Current number is around 70 000, of that around 50 000 Serbs.

But these were Yugoslav partisans and other "anti government activists", some of which simply happened to be Serbs, many were Croats too.

[Morlak]

That's not right argument. 2000 killed civilians isn't confirmed nor accepted, except by Serbs themself.

Should I remind you who was expelled from their land in that war ? Croats, by Serbs, and tens of tousands of them. Individual crimes are processed. From wiki:


Tadić was OK. Btw, as for NDH, it was indipendent in name only ...

I dont deny any of these crimes, however i do think numbers are exaggerated. But this is not one sided, action demands reaction. Croatia knew that Serbs would rebelled after you revoked our right to be "constitinual ethnicity". Serbophobia was increasing in Croatia at huge rate, and may i ask , if you Croats had a right to secede, Bosniaks had right to secede, Albanians had right to secede, why werent us Serbs treated the same way? NDH might have been independent only in name but it was fully Croatian state.

[Jana]

But these were Yugoslav partisans and other "anti government activists", some of which simply happened to be Serbs, many were Croats too.

It's hard to know exact information, since little of the camp is left except individual testimonies. I have no doubt it was horrible place.

Btw, my grandfather was from first town near to the camp, and he was in prison in Jasenovac for 3 month during WW2 (it was jail too, not just concentratuion camp).

He didn't really liked to talk about it, but he said executions happen mostly during night time and far from eyes of other prisoners. He is deceased now, so I can't really ask him more about details what was happening there.

[Dragan Ciganovic]

, but why should we be the only ones apologizing?

Because we were aggressors who attacked Croatia to pursue our genocidal project of Greater Serbia? For being responsible for deaths of hundreds of thousands if not millions of Croats in WW1 (we started WW1, remember) WW2 and 90s. , for suppressing and trying to serbify Croatian culture?

For inventing Turbofolk?

For causing hundreds of billions of dollars of damage to Croatias industry and infrastructure?


After all we did to Croats we should be glad to still exist as a country and they didnt chase our Traktorijada all the way to Belgrade.

[Morlak]

That's not true, but it certanly wasn't 700 000 or million, as some lunatics sugest.

Current number is around 80 000, of that around 50 000 Serbs.

Thats not true, estimated number of Serbs killed only in concentration camps is 100 000, while number of killed people goes from 300 000-500 000(not just in NDH, but majority is from NDH).

[Jana]

I dont deny any of these crimes, however i do think numbers are exaggerated. But this is not one sided, action demands reaction. Croatia knew that Serbs would rebelled after you revoked our right to be "constitinual ethnicity". Serbophobia was increasing in Croatia at huge rate, and may i ask , if you Croats had a right to secede, Bosniaks had right to secede, Albanians had right to secede, why werent us Serbs treated the same way? NDH might have been independent only in name but it was fully Croatian state.

Well, Franjo did such controversial move after Serbian rebellions started . It wasn't exactly wise move, but it was war. He was certanly happy to have Serbs out of Croatia in the end, but he surely didn't plan to exterminate them. Croatia was attacked, not Serbia.

Problem with Serbian secession is that it was simply geographically impossible, they occupied part of Croatia too far from Serbia and vitaly important for any basic state functioning. New constituation did guarantee them all citizen rights.

Now, it is clear to me such rural population was quite suspicious of Croats, but surely Serbian media machinery about new NDH feed that irrational fears.

Let's not forget, Slovenia and Croatia offered plan to keep Yugoslavia as confederate state, which Serbs didn't want to accept. The only ones to blame for it's bloody disolution are they. what else can I say ?

[Jana]

Thats not true, estimated number of Serbs killed only in concentration camps is 100 000, while number of killed people goes from 300 000-500 000(not just in NDH, but majority is from NDH).

Figure I gave is for Jasenovac only. I have very reliable figures for WW2 loses on territories on NDH for Croats and Serbs, supported by verified data (book: Administrative Science, Robert Blažević, Law school of University in Rijeka, 2015)
It's from my old school book. I can list all reference in the footnotes, it is data not made by our Professor (who is of partizan orientation btw, he just cited it)

Serbs: total number living NDH (2 million and 100 tousand), total war victims 330 000, out of which 82 000 as partizan fighters, 23 000 as quislings and collaboracionists, and 217 000 as victims of nazi/ustaša-collaborationist terror.
Croats: total number living in NDH (3 million and 400 tousand), total war victims 178 000, out of which 46 000 as partizan fighters, 65 000 as victims of četnik, nazi and ustaša terror, and 70 000 as quislings and collaborationists

[Morlak]

Well, Franjo did such controversial move after Serbian rebellions started . It wasn't exactly wise move, but it was war. He was certanly happy to have Serbs out of Croatia in the end, but he surely didn't plan to exterminate them. Croatia was attacked, not Serbia.

Problem with Serbian secession is that it was simply geographically impossible, they occupied part of Croatia too far from Serbia and vitaly important for any basic state functioning. New constituation did guarantee them all citizen rights.

Now, it is clear to me such rural populatio was quite suspicious of Croats, but surely Serbian media machinery about new NDH feed that irrational fears.

Let's not forget, Slovenia and Croatia offered plan to keep Yugoslavia as confederate state, which Serbs didn't want to accept. The only ones to blame for it's bloody disolution are they. what else can I say ?

You Croats always talk like we wanted to invade Zagreb or something, we "invaded" areas with Serbian majority or significant minority, who had every right to be under Serbian rule.