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Thread: What Non-Slavic ancestries do Ukrainians, Belarusians, Russians have?

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    Default What Non-Slavic ancestries do Ukrainians, Belarusians, Russians have?

    What other ethnic ancestries do these 3 East Slavic nations have, apart from Slavic?

    =====

    By the way:

    Linguists estimate that Proto-Slavic language split from the Proto-Balto-Slavic continuum between 4000 and 2500 years ago (2000-500 BC). First divisions within Proto-Slavs could take place even before 100 AD:

    http://journals.plos.org/plosone/art...=supplementary

    Quote: "(...) Our consensus tree (Fig. G in S2 File) suggests the following topological and temporal reconstruction of the Balto-Slavic languages. Initial disintegration of proto-Balto-Slavic into proto-East Baltic and proto-Slavic took place during the 2nd millennium BC*. Proto Slavic splits into three major clades, East, West, South Slavic around year 100 AD (1900 Years Before Present). Further diversification of each clade into minor clades (i.e. proto-East Slavic: Ukrainian/Belarusian, Russian; proto-West Slavic: Czech/Slovak, proto-Sorbian, Polish/Kashubian; proto-South Slavic: Serbo-Croatian, Bulgarian, Macedonian) took place during the 5th–7th centuries AD (about 1500–1300 YPB), followed by final shaping of individual languages (1000–500 YBP). (...)"

    *There was also proto-West Baltic as a 3rd branch (or maybe closer to Proto-Slavic?).

    =====

    Edit:

    Quote Originally Posted by Harkonnen View Post
    Balts have something like 40% N1c1 yet nobody goes claiming they be Finno-Ugrics.
    But Baltic N1c as well as Swedish N1c are descended from Uralic N1c, in my opinion. Of course those were founder effects. This is how I see it (Uralic N1c is ancestral to Rurikid and Baltic N1c, which are both sub-branches of Uralic L1026). All of L1026+ was originally Proto-Uralic, IMO:

    https://s14.postimg.org/li0admzzl/N1c1a1.png



    =====

    Edit:

    Bronze Age Balts: https://www.nature.com/articles/s41467-018-02825-9

    As you can see, Bronze Age Balts were even "more Baltic" than modern Balts:

    PCA and ADMIXTURE analysis reflecting three time periods in Northern European prehistory. a Principal components analysis of 1012 present-day West Eurasians (grey points, modern Baltic populations in dark grey) with 294 projected published ancient and 38 ancient North European samples introduced in this study (marked with a red outline). Population labels of modern West Eurasians are given in Supplementary Fig. 7 and a zoomed-in version of the European Late Neolithic and Bronze Age samples is provided in Supplementary Fig. 8. b Ancestral components in ancient individuals estimated by ADMIXTURE (k = 11)

    Last edited by Peterski; 02-23-2018 at 11:29 PM.

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    Iranic, Germanic and Turkic possibly

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    Iranic, Germanic and Siberian/Mongolian/Turkic (I'm not certain which exactly).

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    In case of Russians also Finno-Ugric and in case of Belarusians also Baltic I guess?

    What about East Germanic, Vlach, Thracian, Celtic? Were there Celts in West Ukraine?

    ==================

    Claudius Ptolemy mentioned the following 61 tribes inhabiting "European Sarmatia":

    http://s14.postimg.org/alzw15srl/Eu_Sarmatia.png



    And here is the approximate extent of "European Sarmatia" acccording to Ptolemy:

    http://s24.postimg.org/wmhyo4yad/Germania_Sarmatia2.png



    These tribes mentioned by Ptolemy were most likely or possibly Baltic-speakers:



    ^^^ Possible identifications with Early Medieval Baltic-speaking tribes:

    Ptolemy's Galindai (Galindae) = Medieval Galindians
    Ptolemy's Sudinoi (Sudini) = Medieval Sudovians
    Ptolemy's Sali = Medieval Selonians

    And this is less obvious, but also possible:

    Ptolemy's Carvones (Carbones) or Cariones or Careotae = Medieval Curonians

    ===========

    Ptolemy's Gythones are identified with Goths - an East Germanic tribe.

    Not all tribes in living in what was called European Sarmatia were ethnically Non-Germanic, just like not all tribes living in what was called Germania were ethnically Germanic.
    Last edited by Peterski; 02-23-2018 at 10:49 PM.

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    Southern European Sarmatia was dominantly Iranic until the Hunnic invasions

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    Probable distribution of tribes in what Ptolemy called "European Sarmatia":

    http://s17.postimg.org/agctzea6l/European_Sarmatia.png

    Ocean Sarmacki (Sarmatian Ocean) = Baltic Sea. Pontos = Black Sea.



    To the east of European Sarmatia, was located Sarmatia Asiatica:



    Tabula Peutingeriana has some tribes from these regions as well:

    https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikiped...a_-_Miller.jpg

    =====

    "On Stavanoi [Stawanowie] and Souobenoi":

    http://www.jassa.org/?p=2556
    Last edited by Peterski; 02-23-2018 at 10:47 PM.

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    Belarusians just baltic
    Ukrainians in the west/Carpathians def. have Paleo-balkan admixture , others maybe some Iranic or Turkic
    Russians Uralic mostly, baltic in north west and north Caucasian among some groups like Cossacks

    Iranic ancestry kind of hard to measure since old Iranics had lot of eastern european admixture, but they inhabited steppe so there might be some

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    Quote Originally Posted by Peterski View Post
    In case of Russians also Finno-Ugric and in case of Belarusians also Baltic I guess?

    What about East Germanic, Vlach, Thracian, Celtic? Were there Celts in West Ukraine?

    ==================

    Claudius Ptolemy mentioned the following 61 tribes inhabiting "European Sarmatia":

    http://s14.postimg.org/alzw15srl/Eu_Sarmatia.png



    And here is the approximate extent of "European Sarmatia" acccording to Ptolemy:

    http://s24.postimg.org/wmhyo4yad/Germania_Sarmatia2.png

    Russians don't have Finno-Ugric ancestry. How many times do I have to tell this to you, you fucking retard

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    Quote Originally Posted by Stearsolina View Post
    Belarusians just baltic
    Ukrainians in the west/Carpathians def. have Paleo-balkan admixture , others maybe some Iranic or Turkic
    Russians Uralic mostly, baltic in north west and north Caucasian among some groups like Cossacks

    Iranic ancestry kind of hard to measure since old Iranics had lot of eastern european admixture, but they inhabited steppe so there might be some
    Steppe Iranians had more West Asian and less Anatolian farmer, its the complete opposite for most East Europeans, so perhaps elevated West Asian admixture could be an argument

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    Quote Originally Posted by Harkonnen View Post
    Russians don't have Finno-Ugric ancestry. How many times do I have to tell this to you, you fucking retard
    Lol. At least you put a smiley face at the end of the sentence.

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