Versailles treaty that harsh to Germany?

[Peterski]

Respecting the ethnic rights of Germans in Bohemia and Moravia

But Czechoslovakia never signed the Little Treaty of Versailles, so it was not obliged to respect its minorities:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Little..._of_Versailles

That's why Czechoslovakia could get away with mistreating its minorities. They never promised not to do so.

[Bobby Martnen]

But Czechoslovakia never signed the Little Treaty of Versailles, so it was not obliged to respect its minorities:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Little..._of_Versailles

That's why Czechoslovakia could get away with mistreating its minorities. They never promised not to do so.

That doesn't make it right. Czechians are just confused German-Polish-Slovak hybrids, and not really a nation in their own right.

[Bobby Martnen]

Yes but even the Germanic Alsace-Lorraine population preferred France over Germany, from what I've read. And Sudeten Germans could have gotten special minority rights and maybe even some autonomy.

I've done more research, and most Alsatians preferred being German, but aligned themselves with France over Germany at the end of the war because they knew that Germany would be punished harshly, and they wanted to avoid it.

So it was really just a strategic decision, and not one that showed their loyalty.

[Peterski]

Polish territorial demands from Germany after 1918 included in total 85,644 square kilometers of land with 6,127,400 inhabitants, as described by Roman Dmowski - see "Dmowski's Line" showing the suggested boundaries of Poland, and his "Note on the Western Frontiers of the Polish State". That included nearly all of the Prussian Partition of Poland (i.e. lands which had been Polish before 1772) as well as parts of Silesia, East Prussia and Pomerania (near Bytów and Lębork) with ethnically Polish and Kashubian populations. American experts (The Inquiry, including David Hunter Miller who wrote a diary from the Paris Peace Conference) pretty much agreed to Dmowski's Line, but French experts (the Cambon Commission) suggested to give Poland 58,632 km2 inhabited by 4,987,400 people, with a plebiscite covering an additional ca. 15,000 km2 (in total almost 74,000 km2). Both The Inquiry and the Cambon Commission recommended to return Danzig back to Poland, instead of turning it into a Free City (as politicians wanted).

In the end, mainly due to German protests supported chiefly by Great Britain's politicians (including David Lloyd George) - who did not want to weaken Germany, because they saw it (wrongly) as a potential future defender of Europe against Russian Bolsheviks - Poland got only 46,240 km2 - including 26,111 km2 from Province of Posen (90% of its territory with 93% of its population), 15,900 km2 from West Prussia (62% of its territory with 57% of its population), 3,225 km2 from Prussian Upper Silesia (25% of its territory with 41% of its population) and 1,004 km2 from Lower Silesia (with the city of Rychtal) and East Prussia (with the city of Działdowo). That area was inhabited by around 4 million people (2 million from Province of Posen, 1 million from West Prussia and 1 million from Prussian Upper Silesia, with additional 30,000 from Lower Silesia and 30,000 from East Prussia).

So the Treaty of Versailles was too lenient towards Germany, because it lost much less territory than initially planned, at least in the east.

Poland got only 54% of the area it had legitimate claims to, and only 79% of the area that the Cambon Commission assigned to it.

British "Appeasement" towards Germany, which began already in 1919, was ultimately the main cause of Germany's ability to start WW2.

British experts were - just like American and French experts - much more Pro-Polish in their suggestions, than British politicians.

[Harkonnen]

Polish territorial demands from Germany after 1918 included in total 85,644 square kilometers of land with 6,127,400 inhabitants, as described by Roman Dmowski - see "Dmowski's Line" showing the suggested boundaries of Poland, and his "Note on the Western Frontiers of the Polish State". That included nearly all of the Prussian Partition of Poland (i.e. lands which had been Polish before 1772) as well as parts of Silesia, East Prussia and Pomerania (near Bytów and Lębork) with ethnically Polish and Kashubian populations. American experts (The Inquiry, including David Hunter Miller who wrote a diary from the Paris Peace Conference) pretty much agreed to Dmowski's Line, but French experts (the Cambon Commission) suggested to give Poland 58,632 km2 inhabited by 4,987,400 people, with a plebiscite covering an additional ca. 15,000 km2 (in total almost 74,000 km2). Both The Inquiry and the Cambon Commission recommended to return Danzig back to Poland, instead of turning it into a Free City (as politicians wanted).

In the end, mainly due to German protests supported chiefly by Great Britain's politicians (including David Lloyd George) - who did not want to weaken Germany, because they saw it (wrongly) as a potential future defender of Europe against Russian Bolsheviks - Poland got only 46,240 km2 - including 26,111 km2 from Province of Posen (90% of its territory with 93% of its population), 15,900 km2 from West Prussia (62% of its territory with 57% of its population), 3,225 km2 from Prussian Upper Silesia (25% of its territory with 41% of its population) and 1,004 km2 from Lower Silesia (with the city of Rychtal) and East Prussia (with the city of Działdowo). That area was inhabited by around 4 million people (2 million from Province of Posen, 1 million from West Prussia and 1 million from Prussian Upper Silesia, with additional 30,000 from Lower Silesia and 30,000 from East Prussia).

So the Treaty of Versailles was too lenient towards Germany, because it lost much less territory than initially planned, at least in the east.

Poland got only 54% of the area it had legitimate claims to, and only 79% of the area that the Cambon Commission assigned to it.

British "Appeasement" towards Germany, which began already in 1919, was ultimately the main cause of Germany's ability to start WW2.

British experts were - just like American and French experts - much more Pro-Polish in their suggestions, than British politicians.

What should be done to make right from wrong?

[Harkonnen]

Britain should be punished for causing WW2 (already their actions from 1919-1920s, but also from 1930s e.g. Munich Betrayal). Thanks to British "Appeasement" and pro-German attitude Hitler was able to rise to power and Germany was able to remilitarize.

How would you punish them?

[Peterski]

What should be done to make right from wrong?

Britain should be punished for causing WW2 (already their actions from 1919-1920s, but also from 1930s e.g. Munich Betrayal). Thanks to British "Appeasement" and pro-German attitude Hitler was able to rise to power and Germany was able to remilitarize.

Not giving Poland the Masurian Lake District (area with excellent defensive potential, as demonstrated by the battle of Tannenberg in 1914 when Russian forces were unable to advance through narrow passages between lakes and swamps) contributed to fast German-Soviet victory against Poland in 1939, because the area between Warsaw and East Prussia was a flat lowland with no natural defences (such natural defensive zone was Masuria, with mainly Protestant but ethnically Polish population, which Dmowski had claimed for Poland after WW1).

In addition, Dmowski suggested to demilitarize East Prussia (or rather what would remain of it) and put it under supervision of the League of Nations. Great Britain protested against that. And in 1939 Germany launched one of its main offensives from East Prussia.

[Peterski]

How would you punish them?

Flood them with Polish immigrants.

[Harkonnen]

Peterski. You are the Polish Hiroo Onoda

[Peterski]

(...)

Well I'm not the one who started this thread ~100 after Versailles, lol.