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Thread: Ancient Romans had fallen in love with Greece..

  1. #21
    Veteran Member wvwvw's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by renaissance12 View Post
    Ancient Romans had fallen in love with Greece..( Did they were homosexual ? )

    Horace quote: Graecia capta ferum victorem cepit,

    Captive Greece took captive her savage conquerer and brought the arts to rustic Latium
    They didn’t adopt Greek culture, language or religion out of love, but because Greek tribes had brought these to Italy from the time that Ogyges (also known as Noah/Janus) was king of both Greece and Italy, and from the time of Cronus (Saturn) when Italy used to be a colony of Greece and was known as Saturnia.

    http://www.tertullian.org/fathers/origo_01_trans.htm

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    Veteran Member wvwvw's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bosniensis View Post
    Yes but who are those Etruscans, Sabines?

    Colonists from Balkans and Anatolia.
    The Etruscans were not a single tribe, and no Roman historian refer to any such tribe. They refer to Tuscans as native Italians, to Tyrsenoi as Lydians/Phrygians, to Pelasgoi as Greek, and several other native and other tribes that used to live there.

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    Veteran Member Ajeje Brazorf's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by wvwvw View Post
    They didn’t adopt Greek culture, language or religion out of love, but because Greek tribes had brought these to Italy from the time that Ogyges (also known as Noah/Janus) was king of both Greece and Italy, and from the time of Cronus (Saturn) when Italy used to be a colony of Greece and was known as Saturnia.

    http://www.tertullian.org/fathers/origo_01_trans.htm
    This is mythology, not history. It also depends what you mean by "Italy", with Italy they meant Calabria or just south Italy back then.

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    The Romans were indeed philo-hellenes, and the Greeks were philo-Romans as well.

    Remember that the Roman war of Judaea started because the jews didn't accept the hellenism.

    Also, in medieval ages, the Byzantine Empire was really called Roman Empire, and the Greeks called themselves Ρωμαιοι (Romans), despite that the rest of Europe called them Greeks.

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    Veteran Member Ajeje Brazorf's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by wvwvw View Post
    The Etruscans were not a single tribe, and no Roman historian refer to any such tribe. They refer to Tuscans as native Italians, to Tyrsenoi as Lydians/Phrygians, to Pelasgoi as Greek, and several other native and other tribes that used to live there.
    Romans never referred to Etruscans as "native Italians". And Tursēnoí was a word that changed meaning with time, it was used to refer to non-Greeks apparently, to Etruscans and then to Pelasgians. Pelasgoí too had a shitload of meanings so we cannot draw conclusions so easily.

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    Veteran Member wvwvw's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ajeje Brazorf View Post
    Romans never referred to Etruscans as "native Italians". And Tursēnoí was a word that changed meaning with time, it was used to refer to non-Greeks apparently, to Etruscans and then to Pelasgians. Pelasgoí too had a shitload of meanings so we cannot draw conclusions so easily.
    Romans makes no mention at all of any tribe or people called Etruscans. It refers to the POPULATION of Etruria and this were mixture of tribes.

    "[3] Ueientes contra taedio annuae ambitionis quae interdum discordiarum causa erat, regem creauere. offendit ea res populorum Etruriae animos, non maiore odio regni quam ipsius regis. [4] grauis iam is antea genti fuerat opibus superbiaque, quia sollemnia ludorum quos intermitti nefas est uiolenter diremisset, [5] cum ob iram repulsae, quod suffragio duodecim populorum alius sacerdos ei praelatus esset, artifices, quorum magna pars ipsius serui erant, ex medio ludicro repente abduxit. "

    They refer to Tuscans and they make a distinction between Tuscans and Tyrrhenians and Pelasgians who are different unrelated tribes who spoke different languages.

    Etruria and Tuscum are nothing to do with each other. The Tuscans were descended from Tuscus. There were no such people as Etruscans which is also why there is no Etruscan eponymous founder. The Latin text mentions a TUSCAN word and clearly distinguishes the Tuscans from other Etrurian populations, by referring to "Tuscan fashion" and "Tuscan word". This implies there are other Etrurian populations who are not Tuscans.

    "[4] ceterum parua quoque, ut ferme principia omnia, et ea ipsa peregrinares fuit. sine carmine ullo, sine imitandorum carminum actu ludiones ex Etruria acciti, ad tibicinis modos saltantes, haud indecoros motus more Tusco dabant. [5] imitari deinde eos iuuentus, simul inconditis inter se iocularia fundentes uersibus, coepere; nec absoni a uoce motus erant. [6]
    accepta itaque res saepiusque usurpando excitata. uernaculis artificibus, quia ister Tusco uerbo ludio uocabatur, nomen histrionibus inditum; "

    It is describing a geographic region of many peoples. In 1183 BC according to Strabo et. al. Teucrian tribes are documented to have also colonised northern Italy including Rome.

    There was also a high degree of Greek colonisation of Italy between 1246 and1183 BC and from 734 BC onwards as well as a an Arcadian Pelagic colonisation in 1460 BC. (Pausanius et. al). Also there was a Aeolic (Thesprotian?) colonisation somewhere between 1460 and 1300 BC attested to by Stabo and others. The first Roman emperor of Greek origin to have come out of Etruria was Tarquinus.

    In around about 1093 BC or not long after Pelasgains colonised parts of northern Greece and went as far north as Creston above Tyrrhenia. They also founded Tyrrhenian Athens according to Thucidedes.

    The word Etruria came from the corruption of the Lydian name Tyrrhenia via Greek since there is a Greek ending which agee with "H" or "The (fem.)".

    "Etruria" = "H Tyrrhenia"

    The Tyrrhenian Lydian's came to northern Italy in 1610 BC 18 years after the Thera Eruption as documented by Herodotus.

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    Veteran Member wvwvw's Avatar
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    To sum it up there was no such language as Etruscan and no such tribe. If you are looking for names of languages of the region then try Atlantian. At least the Atlantians are historically documented to have been the earliest people to have colonised Tyrhennia (prior to 1628 BC before the Thera Eruption). But then again the Veneti have a better claim to have been their decedents.

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    The power of the Roman Legions....!!!!



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    Quote Originally Posted by McCree900 View Post
    Well, the Greeks were the ones who had given the Romans the sense of civilization afterall which later gave birth to western civilization as a whole.
    Don't forget the Etruscans ... Etruscans taught romans almost everything..
    When the greeks arrived in Italy they found something they didn't expect... an ancient advanced civilization already there..

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    Veteran Member Ajeje Brazorf's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by wvwvw View Post
    Romans makes no mention at all of any tribe or people called Etruscans. It refers to the POPULATION of Etruria and this were mixture of tribes.

    "[3] Ueientes contra taedio annuae ambitionis quae interdum discordiarum causa erat, regem creauere. offendit ea res populorum Etruriae animos, non maiore odio regni quam ipsius regis. [4] grauis iam is antea genti fuerat opibus superbiaque, quia sollemnia ludorum quos intermitti nefas est uiolenter diremisset, [5] cum ob iram repulsae, quod suffragio duodecim populorum alius sacerdos ei praelatus esset, artifices, quorum magna pars ipsius serui erant, ex medio ludicro repente abduxit. "

    They refer to Tuscans and they make a distinction between Tuscans and Tyrrhenians and Pelasgians who are different unrelated tribes who spoke different languages.

    Etruria and Tuscum are nothing to do with each other. The Tuscans were descended from Tuscus. There were no such people as Etruscans which is also why there is no Etruscan eponymous founder. The Latin text mentions a TUSCAN word and clearly distinguishes the Tuscans from other Etrurian populations, by referring to "Tuscan fashion" and "Tuscan word". This implies there are other Etrurian populations who are not Tuscans.

    "[4] ceterum parua quoque, ut ferme principia omnia, et ea ipsa peregrinares fuit. sine carmine ullo, sine imitandorum carminum actu ludiones ex Etruria acciti, ad tibicinis modos saltantes, haud indecoros motus more Tusco dabant. [5] imitari deinde eos iuuentus, simul inconditis inter se iocularia fundentes uersibus, coepere; nec absoni a uoce motus erant. [6]
    accepta itaque res saepiusque usurpando excitata. uernaculis artificibus, quia ister Tusco uerbo ludio uocabatur, nomen histrionibus inditum; "

    It is describing a geographic region of many peoples. In 1183 BC according to Strabo et. al. Teucrian tribes are documented to have also colonised northern Italy including Rome.

    There was also a high degree of Greek colonisation of Italy between 1246 and1183 BC and from 734 BC onwards as well as a an Arcadian Pelagic colonisation in 1460 BC. (Pausanius et. al). Also there was a Aeolic (Thesprotian?) colonisation somewhere between 1460 and 1300 BC attested to by Stabo and others. The first Roman emperor of Greek origin to have come out of Etruria was Tarquinus.

    In around about 1093 BC or not long after Pelasgains colonised parts of northern Greece and went as far north as Creston above Tyrrhenia. They also founded Tyrrhenian Athens according to Thucidedes.

    The word Etruria came from the corruption of the Lydian name Tyrrhenia via Greek since there is a Greek ending which agee with "H" or "The (fem.)".

    "Etruria" = "H Tyrrhenia"

    The Tyrrhenian Lydian's came to northern Italy in 1610 BC 18 years after the Thera Eruption as documented by Herodotus.
    Tuscus was a shortened version of Etruscus, lol. Ancient sources are to take with a large dose of salt since what they say is based on legends and myths, also what you have written about colonization of north Italy is wrong.

    The sources you quoted:

    "The Veientines, on the other hand, tired of the annual canvassing for office, elected a king. This gave great offence to the Etruscan cantons, owing to their hatred of monarchy and their personal aversion to the one who was elected. He was already obnoxious to the nation through his pride of wealth and overbearing temper, for he had put a violent stop to the festival of the Games, the interruption of which is an act of impiety. His candidature for the priesthood had been unsuccessful, another being preferred by the vote of the twelve cantons, and in revenge he suddenly withdrew the performers, most of whom were his own slaves, in the middle of the Games."

    "They began, however, in a small way, as nearly everything does, and small as they were, they were borrowed from abroad. The players were sent for from Etruria; there were no words, no mimetic action; they danced to the measures of the flute and practised graceful movements in Tuscan fashion. Afterwards the young men began to imitate them, exercising their wit on each other in burlesque verses, and suiting their action to their words. This became an established diversion, and was kept up by frequent practice. The Tuscan word for an actor is istrio, and so the native performers were called histriones."

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