Skin Color Didn't Matter to the Ancient Romans..

[billsoncreole26]

hahah I know exactly who you are and it seems you still don't want to learn. No "moor" didn't came from the greek word "mavros" that's a common myth used by afrocentrists. Reality is that it came from the latin word "mauri/maurus" used for the inhabitants of mauretania which itself came from the phoenician term "mahur or mahurim" which means "westerners"





https://www.nationalgeographic.com/h...ho-were-moors/

so yes random west african slaves in al andalus were called moors too but originally it was a term used for north africans and most moors weren't black. Also if the moors were all black we would have at least seen a genetic influence on the local population but nada. We clearly see a north african influence not a black one.

And lol at your white slaves argument you clearly haven't read anything about it. comparing a massive slave trade that brought 9 millions of slaves (we also have evidence of genetic impact) vs a small slave trade of mostly male slaves who were in most cases redeemed by their family or christian associations. Also North africans never enslaved indians or turks. And I challenge you to find any genetic impact of this "white slavery" do you forget that we also have depictions/descriptions of ancient north africans ? Do you forget that we have the genetic results of guanches ? Also of two copper age north africans ? You're out of your element go back to ES.


Also moors were so black that they used to talk about themselves like this :

I never claimed the word 'moor' directly originated from mavros/mauros i stated that the word 'maurus' originates from it.

1stt c. A.D. – “Diodorus Siculus speaks in reference to theexpedition of Agathocles a Sardinian general, of three Libyan tribes on the coast of Tunisia, the Micatani and Zufoni (see Zafan ),who were nomads and the Asfodelodi, who by the color of their skin resembled the Ethiopians” , p. 50 The Mediterranean Race Book XX, 38, 57 Guiseppe Sergi, 1901.

1st century Silius Italicus also describes the Moors with the term ‘Nigra’ meaning black. In the 3rd century Roman dramatist Platus or Plautus maintained the name Maure was a synonym for “Niger” which was a common term for the word black.

6th A.D.- Corippus uses the phrase “facies nigroque colorus” meaning faces or appearance of black color to describe the North African Berbers. In his book Johannis, I/ 245.

6th A.D. – Procopius in his History of the Wars book IV contrasting the Germanic Vandals who had settled in North Africa with the Maures claimed the Vandals were not “black skinned like the Maurusioi” . The tribes he classified as Maurusioi are those now classified as ancient Berbers, the Numidians, Masaesyle, Gaitules, Massyles and Mezikes several other “Berber” tribes then settled between Tunisia and Morocco.

1st -2nd century – Juvenal, the Roman writer in his Satire V. 53 referred to “a Gaetulian, as a black a Moor “so black you’d rather not see him at midnight”.. Found in Madan’s translation of Juvenal, vol. I by J. Vincent published at Oxford.

11th century – “The Berber women are from the island of Barbara, which is between the west and the south. Their color is mostly black though some pale ones can be found among them. If you can find one whose mother is of Kutama, whose father is of Sanhaja, and whose origin is Masmuda, then you will find her naturally inclined to obedience and loyalty in all matters, active in service, suited both to motherhood and to pleasure, for they are the most solicitous in caring for their children. “ 11th century the Christian Iraqi physician Ibn Butlan quoted by historian Bernard Lewis.

11th century – Nasr i Khusrau, an Iranian ruler described the Masmuda soldiers of the Fatimid dynasty as “black Africans”. See Yaacov Lev, “Army, Regime and Society in Fatimid Egypt, 358-487/968-1094”, International Journal of Middle Eastern Studies, 19.3 (1987) p. 342.

Mauri Mazikes or Mazazeces were found in Tripolitania, the interior of Libya and Mauritania Caesariensis. The 4thcentury Expositio Totius Mundi speaks of a people in the desert that was called Mazices and Ethiopian. “Deinde post Africae omnem regionem adjacent et deserta terra maxima in austri partibus: ubi aiunt in minima parte ipsius derserrti habitare barbarorum paucam gentem, quae sic vocatur Mazicum et Aethiopum”.

“...among the descendants of Sudan, son of Kana'an are many nations, of them the Ishban, the Zanj, and many people that multiplied in the Maghreb.” Akbar al-Zaman 11th century Arabic text (Cited by Hopkins and Levtzion in Corpus of Early Arabic Sources for West African History.(2000) p. 35, Markus Wiener Publishers)

Furthermore i never claimed North Africans enslaved Indians and Turks i clearly said Islamic slave trade which encompasses the middle east also.








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[Hamilcar]

I never claimed the word 'moor' directly originated from mavros/mauros i stated that the word 'maurus' originates from it.

1stt c. A.D. – “Diodorus Siculus speaks in reference to theexpedition of Agathocles a Sardinian general, of three Libyan tribes on the coast of Tunisia, the Micatani and Zufoni (see Zafan ),who were nomads and the Asfodelodi, who by the color of their skin resembled the Ethiopians” , p. 50 The Mediterranean Race Book XX, 38, 57 Guiseppe Sergi, 1901.

1st century Silius Italicus also describes the Moors with the term ‘Nigra’ meaning black. In the 3rd century Roman dramatist Platus or Plautus maintained the name Maure was a synonym for “Niger” which was a common term for the word black.

6th A.D.- Corippus uses the phrase “facies nigroque colorus” meaning faces or appearance of black color to describe the North African Berbers. In his book Johannis, I/ 245.

6th A.D. – Procopius in his History of the Wars book IV contrasting the Germanic Vandals who had settled in North Africa with the Maures claimed the Vandals were not “black skinned like the Maurusioi” . The tribes he classified as Maurusioi are those now classified as ancient Berbers, the Numidians, Masaesyle, Gaitules, Massyles and Mezikes several other “Berber” tribes then settled between Tunisia and Morocco.

1st -2nd century – Juvenal, the Roman writer in his Satire V. 53 referred to “a Gaetulian, as a black a Moor “so black you’d rather not see him at midnight”.. Found in Madan’s translation of Juvenal, vol. I by J. Vincent published at Oxford.

11th century – “The Berber women are from the island of Barbara, which is between the west and the south. Their color is mostly black though some pale ones can be found among them. If you can find one whose mother is of Kutama, whose father is of Sanhaja, and whose origin is Masmuda, then you will find her naturally inclined to obedience and loyalty in all matters, active in service, suited both to motherhood and to pleasure, for they are the most solicitous in caring for their children. “ 11th century the Christian Iraqi physician Ibn Butlan quoted by historian Bernard Lewis.

11th century – Nasr i Khusrau, an Iranian ruler described the Masmuda soldiers of the Fatimid dynasty as “black Africans”. See Yaacov Lev, “Army, Regime and Society in Fatimid Egypt, 358-487/968-1094”, International Journal of Middle Eastern Studies, 19.3 (1987) p. 342.

Mauri Mazikes or Mazazeces were found in Tripolitania, the interior of Libya and Mauritania Caesariensis. The 4thcentury Expositio Totius Mundi speaks of a people in the desert that was called Mazices and Ethiopian. “Deinde post Africae omnem regionem adjacent et deserta terra maxima in austri partibus: ubi aiunt in minima parte ipsius derserrti habitare barbarorum paucam gentem, quae sic vocatur Mazicum et Aethiopum”.

“...among the descendants of Sudan, son of Kana'an are many nations, of them the Ishban, the Zanj, and many people that multiplied in the Maghreb.” Akbar al-Zaman 11th century Arabic text (Cited by Hopkins and Levtzion in Corpus of Early Arabic Sources for West African History.(2000) p. 35, Markus Wiener Publishers)

Furthermore i never claimed North Africans enslaved Indians and Turks i clearly said Islamic slave trade which encompasses the middle east also.

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I see that you took your quotes from a known afrocentrist site : https://www.africaresource.com/rasta...dana-marniche/

Written by the famous dana marniche that believes that north africans were still black during the XIXth century...

anyway you need again a reality check because you don't really know what you're talking about :

"Herodotus enumerates two newcomer peoples - the Greeks and the Phoenicians - and two indigenous peoples - the Libyans in the north and the Aethiopes * in the south - living in "Libya" (IV 197, 2). Toponym and ethnicity have therefore separated in their Geographical connotations: in Herodotus as in the following centuries, the term "Libyans" serves above all as a collective name for the indigenous population of North Africa, being distinguished by its lighter skin and other characters compared to the Ethiopian negroid (for a detailed catalog of the "Libyan" tribes in this sense, attested through antiquity, cf. Desanges 1962). " https://journals.openedition.org/enc...dieberbere/338

"Above Mauretania, on the exterior sea (the Atlantic), is the country of the western Ethiopians, as they are called, which for the most part is badly inhabited. Iphicrates says that camel-leopards are bred here, and elephants, and the animals called rhizeis [the rhinoceros], which in shape are like bulls, but in manner of living, in size, and strength in fighting resemble elephants He speaks also of large serpents, and says that even grass grows upon their backs; that lions attack the young of the elephants and that when they have wounded them, they fly on the approach of the dams; that the latter, when they see their young besmeared with blood, kill them; and that the lions return to the dead bodies, and devour them; that Bogus king of the Mauretanii, during his expedition against the western Ethiopians, sent, as a present to his wife, canes similar to the Indian canes, each joint of which contained eight choenices [about six quarts], and asparagus of similar magnitude."Strabo: Geography, c. 22 A.D.,
XVII.iii.1-11."


"Among ancient populations, early Neolithic Moroccans share affinities with Levantine Natufian hunter-gatherers (~9,000 BCE) and Pre-Pottery Neolithic farmers (~6,500 BCE). Late Neolithic (~3,000 BCE) Moroccan remains, in comparison, share an Iberian component of a prominent European-wide demic expansion, supporting theories of trans-Gibraltar gene flow. Finally, the Andalusian Early Neolithic samples share the same genetic composition as the Cardial Mediterranean Neolithic culture that reached Iberia ~5,500 BCE. The cultural and genetic similarities of the Iberian Neolithic cultures with that of North African Neolithic sites further reinforce the model of an Iberian intrusion into the Maghreb"
https://www.biorxiv.org/content/early/2017/09/21/191569

"The results of this study show that there is a native genetic component that defines North Africans. In-depth study of these markers shows that the people inhabiting North Africa today are not descendants of the earliest occupants of this region fifty thousand years ago, but shows that the ancestors of today's North Africans were a group of populations that already lived in the region around thirteen thousand years ago. Furthermore, this local North African genetic component is very different from the one found in the populations in the south of the Sahara, which shows that the ancestors of today's North Africans were members of a subgroup of humanity who left Africa to conquer the rest of the world and who subsequently returned to the north of the continent to settle in the region" (https://journals.plos.org/plosgeneti...l.pgen.1002397)



"Our Copper Age dataset includes a newly reported male (I4246) from Camino de las Yeseras in central Iberia, radiocarbon dated to 2473–2030 calibrated years BCE, who clusters with modern and ancient North Africans in the PCA (Fig. 1C and fig. S3) and, like ~3000 BCE Moroccans (8), can be well modeled as having ancestry from both Late Pleistocene North Africans(15) and Early Neolithic Europeans (tables S9 and S10). His genome-wide ancestry and uniparental markers (tables S1 and S4) are unique among Copper Age Iberians, including individuals from sites with many analyzed individuals such as Sima del Ángel, and point to a North African origin. Our genetic evidence of sporadic contacts with North Africa during the Copper Age fits with the presence of African ivory at Iberian sites (16) and is further supported by a Bronze Age individual (I7162) from Loma del Puerco in southern Iberia who had 25% ancestry related to individuals like I4246 (Fig. 1D and table S16)."

https://ellipse.prbb.org/reconstruct...ian-peninsula/


"The Saharan rock representations make it possible to distinguish 3 morphotypically identifiable populations which lived separated from each other (from 8000 to 1000 BC): 1) a leucoderma population (linked to the naturalistic bubaline art) which occupied the entire northern Sahara - -> Border with the blacks with the 25-27th parallels which separates the Neolithic Capsian period from the Neolithic Saharo-Sudanese culture.
2) a non-Negroid melanoderm group like the Fulani or the Nilotics.
3) a Negroid group confined to the southernmost areas and Tassili but also in certain areas such as Tibesti, Ennedi and Ouenat" (Bernard lugan,Histoire de l'Afrique du Nord, p29-


"We show that Early Neolithic Moroccans (~5,000 BCE) are similar to Later Stone Age individuals from the same region and possess an endemic element retained in present-day Maghrebi populations, confirming a long-term genetic continuity in the region. "
". It is worthmentioning that, compared with current North African samples,IAM and KEB do not show any sub-Saharan African ancestry in theMEGA-HGDP ADMIXTURE analysis, suggesting that trans-Saharan migrations occurred after Neolithic times. This could bein agreement with the analysis of present-day genome-wide datafrom Morocco, which estimated a migration of western African origin into Morocco only ~1,200 y ago"
https://www.researchgate.net/publica...ant_and_Europe

The name ‘Ethiopia’ was applied by the Greeks to any region in the far south of Africa. The Greek word aithops is related to the word aithos, which means ‘burning heat’, thus the people of ‘Aithiopia’ were described as ‘burnt–faced’, i.e., sun–burnt, dark–complexioned, black. An ethnic connotation is already found in Homer (Od. 2.22).

"Third, our study highlights widespread human mobility from North Africa to Europe during the Chalcolithic and Bronze Age. Specifically, we identified an outlier individual in Sardinia with a large proportion of North-African-derived ancestry who dates to 2345–2146 cal. bc and has an ancestry profile that is similar to an approximately contemporary central Iberian individual dated to 2473–2030 cal. bc25 (and a Bronze Age individual from Iberia dated to 1932–1697 cal. bc, who carried North-African-related ancestry in admixed form25). Together, 1.6% of the 191 individuals from Mediterranean Europe in our analysis dataset from between 5,000– 3,000 years ago have evidence of ancestry from North African migrants in the few generations before they lived" https://reich.hms.harvard.edu/sites/...erranean_0.pdf


"Our GLOBETROTTER results suggest that amongst the six potential African populations in our study, the best match to the predominant group involved in the actual admixture event is north-west African. Moreover, admixture mainly, and perhaps almost exclusively, occurred within the earlier half of the period of Muslim rule (Fig. 5b). Within Spain, north African ancestry occurs in all groups, although levels are low in the Basque region and in a region corresponding closely to the 14th-century Crown of Aragon (compare Figs 1c, 5c). Therefore, although genetically distinct22,23, north African-like ancestry in the Basque region could be explained through genetic interactions between the Basque groups and other parts of Spain within the past 1300 years." https://www.nature.com/articles/s41467-018-08272-w#Sec5


"Comparing our results with previously reported genome-wide data, we also find evidence for a sex-biased sub-Saharan contribution to northern Africans, suggesting that historical events such as the trans-Saharan slave trade mainly contributed to the mtDNA and autosomal gene pool, whereas the northern African paternal gene pool was mainly shaped by more ancient events." https://www.ebi.ac.uk/ena/data/view/PRJEB24071


"After inspecting the wall near the rampart in Britain… just as he [Severus] was wondering what omen would present itself, an Ethiopian from a military unit, who was famous among buffoons and always a notable joker, met him with a garland of cypress. And when Severus in a rage ordered that the man be removed from his sight, troubled as he was by the man's ominous colour and the ominous nature of the garland, [the Ethiopian] by way of jest cried, it is said, “You have been all things, you have conquered all things, now, O conqueror, be a god.” " (Historia Augusta, ‘Septimius Severus’, 22.4-5)

The ethnic marker Afer (‘African’), for example, which appears on tombstones, refers strictly to people from the region around Carthage, in modern Tunisia. The Roman term for someone of sub-Saharan origin was Aethiops – ‘Ethiopian’. So while Severus could be described as an African, we can see from the anecdote about the black soldier in Britain that he could not have been Aethiops himself. https://ianjamesross.com/journal/201...the-roman-army


Romans used to interact a lot of north africans so how do you explain this : "it seems that many Romans were distinctly prejudiced against black people in particular. Black Africans were seen as exotic, and perhaps threateningly alien, and they are seldom if ever mentioned in Roman literature without some negative connotation. Most disturbingly, the historian Appian claims that the military commander Brutus, before the battle of Philippi in 42BC, met an ‘Ethiopian’ outside the gates of his camp: his soldiers instantly hacked the man to pieces, taking his appearance for a bad omen – to the superstitious Roman, black was the colour of death."https://ianjamesross.com/journal/2018/4/28/aethiops-quidam-e-numero-militari-black-africans-in-the-roman-army



"All six individuals from the Punic Villamar site were inferred to have substantial levels of ancient North-African ancestry (point estimates ranging 20–35%, Supp. Fig. 14, also see ADMIXTURE and PCA results, Figs. 2 and 4). When fit with the same five-way admixture model, present-day Sardinians have a small but detectable level of North-African ancestry (Supp. Fig. 14, also see ADMIXTURE analysis, Fig. 4)." https://www.nature.com/articles/s41467-020-14523-6#Sec2


Now explain to me if the moors were all black why would guanches be similar to modern north africans while they never met any arab or roman :


"Our results show that the Guanches were genetically similar over time and that they display the greatest genetic affinity to extant Northwest Africans, strongly supporting the hypothesis of a Berber-like origin."

"The Guanches’ Berber-like affinity is further supported by ADMIXTURE [29] analysis (Figures 3 and S3), where Guanches largely behave like modern Berbers across all values of K. At K = 10, a Northwest African-specific ancestry component makes up the greatest amount of autosomal ancestry in the Guanche and Berber populations in the HO dataset"

"The results reveal that this individual likely was lactose intolerant and had brown eyes, dark hair, and light or medium skin color. These results are similar for the other individuals where SNP information is available, albeit with lower coverage, suggesting that—at least for this sample of Guanches—the dominating phenotype was lactose intolerant, dark hair, light or medium skin color, and brown eyes "

https://www.cell.com/current-biology...822(17)31257-5

depictions of guanches :







Depictions of ancient/medieval north africans :





























I'm surprised that despite your knowledge about north africa's genetic history you still believe that most of them were black (similar to you lol) ...You're still living in a dream focus on your west african bantu region you have absolutely nothing to do with us.

[Hamilcar]

double

[Renekton]

Sub

[Mortimer]

The ancient Romans did not display any hard core race prejudice.
The African or better the "Aethiops," in the Roman Empire worked, lived without fear of racial animosity.
Not all Africans in Rome were slaves, or servants. On the contrary, some were writers, generals...
One general of legendary Roman Theban Legion was Aethiops...

You are right, also romans had alot of "white" slaves too. They didnt care really for the distinction white and non-white. Spartacus the famous slave rebell was white.

[Vishap]

They were meritocratic. One's merits can make exceptions, they knew this well.

[Tooting Carmen]

In both Greece and Rome, the principal distinction was between slave and noble/freeman, which seldom had much to do with skin colour.

[Melki]

[billsoncreole26]

I see that you took your quotes from a known afrocentrist site : https://www.africaresource.com/rasta...dana-marniche/

Written by the famous dana marniche that believes that north africans were still black during the XIXth century...

anyway you need again a reality check because you don't really know what you're talking about :

"Herodotus enumerates two newcomer peoples - the Greeks and the Phoenicians - and two indigenous peoples - the Libyans in the north and the Aethiopes * in the south - living in "Libya" (IV 197, 2). Toponym and ethnicity have therefore separated in their Geographical connotations: in Herodotus as in the following centuries, the term "Libyans" serves above all as a collective name for the indigenous population of North Africa, being distinguished by its lighter skin and other characters compared to the Ethiopian negroid (for a detailed catalog of the "Libyan" tribes in this sense, attested through antiquity, cf. Desanges 1962). " https://journals.openedition.org/enc...dieberbere/338

"Above Mauretania, on the exterior sea (the Atlantic), is the country of the western Ethiopians, as they are called, which for the most part is badly inhabited. Iphicrates says that camel-leopards are bred here, and elephants, and the animals called rhizeis [the rhinoceros], which in shape are like bulls, but in manner of living, in size, and strength in fighting resemble elephants He speaks also of large serpents, and says that even grass grows upon their backs; that lions attack the young of the elephants and that when they have wounded them, they fly on the approach of the dams; that the latter, when they see their young besmeared with blood, kill them; and that the lions return to the dead bodies, and devour them; that Bogus king of the Mauretanii, during his expedition against the western Ethiopians, sent, as a present to his wife, canes similar to the Indian canes, each joint of which contained eight choenices [about six quarts], and asparagus of similar magnitude."Strabo: Geography, c. 22 A.D.,
XVII.iii.1-11."


"Among ancient populations, early Neolithic Moroccans share affinities with Levantine Natufian hunter-gatherers (~9,000 BCE) and Pre-Pottery Neolithic farmers (~6,500 BCE). Late Neolithic (~3,000 BCE) Moroccan remains, in comparison, share an Iberian component of a prominent European-wide demic expansion, supporting theories of trans-Gibraltar gene flow. Finally, the Andalusian Early Neolithic samples share the same genetic composition as the Cardial Mediterranean Neolithic culture that reached Iberia ~5,500 BCE. The cultural and genetic similarities of the Iberian Neolithic cultures with that of North African Neolithic sites further reinforce the model of an Iberian intrusion into the Maghreb"
https://www.biorxiv.org/content/early/2017/09/21/191569

"The results of this study show that there is a native genetic component that defines North Africans. In-depth study of these markers shows that the people inhabiting North Africa today are not descendants of the earliest occupants of this region fifty thousand years ago, but shows that the ancestors of today's North Africans were a group of populations that already lived in the region around thirteen thousand years ago. Furthermore, this local North African genetic component is very different from the one found in the populations in the south of the Sahara, which shows that the ancestors of today's North Africans were members of a subgroup of humanity who left Africa to conquer the rest of the world and who subsequently returned to the north of the continent to settle in the region" (https://journals.plos.org/plosgeneti...l.pgen.1002397)



"Our Copper Age dataset includes a newly reported male (I4246) from Camino de las Yeseras in central Iberia, radiocarbon dated to 2473–2030 calibrated years BCE, who clusters with modern and ancient North Africans in the PCA (Fig. 1C and fig. S3) and, like ~3000 BCE Moroccans (8), can be well modeled as having ancestry from both Late Pleistocene North Africans(15) and Early Neolithic Europeans (tables S9 and S10). His genome-wide ancestry and uniparental markers (tables S1 and S4) are unique among Copper Age Iberians, including individuals from sites with many analyzed individuals such as Sima del Ángel, and point to a North African origin. Our genetic evidence of sporadic contacts with North Africa during the Copper Age fits with the presence of African ivory at Iberian sites (16) and is further supported by a Bronze Age individual (I7162) from Loma del Puerco in southern Iberia who had 25% ancestry related to individuals like I4246 (Fig. 1D and table S16)."

https://ellipse.prbb.org/reconstruct...ian-peninsula/


"The Saharan rock representations make it possible to distinguish 3 morphotypically identifiable populations which lived separated from each other (from 8000 to 1000 BC): 1) a leucoderma population (linked to the naturalistic bubaline art) which occupied the entire northern Sahara - -> Border with the blacks with the 25-27th parallels which separates the Neolithic Capsian period from the Neolithic Saharo-Sudanese culture.
2) a non-Negroid melanoderm group like the Fulani or the Nilotics.
3) a Negroid group confined to the southernmost areas and Tassili but also in certain areas such as Tibesti, Ennedi and Ouenat" (Bernard lugan,Histoire de l'Afrique du Nord, p29-


"We show that Early Neolithic Moroccans (~5,000 BCE) are similar to Later Stone Age individuals from the same region and possess an endemic element retained in present-day Maghrebi populations, confirming a long-term genetic continuity in the region. "
". It is worthmentioning that, compared with current North African samples,IAM and KEB do not show any sub-Saharan African ancestry in theMEGA-HGDP ADMIXTURE analysis, suggesting that trans-Saharan migrations occurred after Neolithic times. This could bein agreement with the analysis of present-day genome-wide datafrom Morocco, which estimated a migration of western African origin into Morocco only ~1,200 y ago"
https://www.researchgate.net/publica...ant_and_Europe

The name ‘Ethiopia’ was applied by the Greeks to any region in the far south of Africa. The Greek word aithops is related to the word aithos, which means ‘burning heat’, thus the people of ‘Aithiopia’ were described as ‘burnt–faced’, i.e., sun–burnt, dark–complexioned, black. An ethnic connotation is already found in Homer (Od. 2.22).

"Third, our study highlights widespread human mobility from North Africa to Europe during the Chalcolithic and Bronze Age. Specifically, we identified an outlier individual in Sardinia with a large proportion of North-African-derived ancestry who dates to 2345–2146 cal. bc and has an ancestry profile that is similar to an approximately contemporary central Iberian individual dated to 2473–2030 cal. bc25 (and a Bronze Age individual from Iberia dated to 1932–1697 cal. bc, who carried North-African-related ancestry in admixed form25). Together, 1.6% of the 191 individuals from Mediterranean Europe in our analysis dataset from between 5,000– 3,000 years ago have evidence of ancestry from North African migrants in the few generations before they lived" https://reich.hms.harvard.edu/sites/...erranean_0.pdf


"Our GLOBETROTTER results suggest that amongst the six potential African populations in our study, the best match to the predominant group involved in the actual admixture event is north-west African. Moreover, admixture mainly, and perhaps almost exclusively, occurred within the earlier half of the period of Muslim rule (Fig. 5b). Within Spain, north African ancestry occurs in all groups, although levels are low in the Basque region and in a region corresponding closely to the 14th-century Crown of Aragon (compare Figs 1c, 5c). Therefore, although genetically distinct22,23, north African-like ancestry in the Basque region could be explained through genetic interactions between the Basque groups and other parts of Spain within the past 1300 years." https://www.nature.com/articles/s41467-018-08272-w#Sec5


"Comparing our results with previously reported genome-wide data, we also find evidence for a sex-biased sub-Saharan contribution to northern Africans, suggesting that historical events such as the trans-Saharan slave trade mainly contributed to the mtDNA and autosomal gene pool, whereas the northern African paternal gene pool was mainly shaped by more ancient events." https://www.ebi.ac.uk/ena/data/view/PRJEB24071


"After inspecting the wall near the rampart in Britain… just as he [Severus] was wondering what omen would present itself, an Ethiopian from a military unit, who was famous among buffoons and always a notable joker, met him with a garland of cypress. And when Severus in a rage ordered that the man be removed from his sight, troubled as he was by the man's ominous colour and the ominous nature of the garland, [the Ethiopian] by way of jest cried, it is said, “You have been all things, you have conquered all things, now, O conqueror, be a god.” " (Historia Augusta, ‘Septimius Severus’, 22.4-5)

The ethnic marker Afer (‘African’), for example, which appears on tombstones, refers strictly to people from the region around Carthage, in modern Tunisia. The Roman term for someone of sub-Saharan origin was Aethiops – ‘Ethiopian’. So while Severus could be described as an African, we can see from the anecdote about the black soldier in Britain that he could not have been Aethiops himself. https://ianjamesross.com/journal/201...the-roman-army


Romans used to interact a lot of north africans so how do you explain this : "it seems that many Romans were distinctly prejudiced against black people in particular. Black Africans were seen as exotic, and perhaps threateningly alien, and they are seldom if ever mentioned in Roman literature without some negative connotation. Most disturbingly, the historian Appian claims that the military commander Brutus, before the battle of Philippi in 42BC, met an ‘Ethiopian’ outside the gates of his camp: his soldiers instantly hacked the man to pieces, taking his appearance for a bad omen – to the superstitious Roman, black was the colour of death."https://ianjamesross.com/journal/2018/4/28/aethiops-quidam-e-numero-militari-black-africans-in-the-roman-army



"All six individuals from the Punic Villamar site were inferred to have substantial levels of ancient North-African ancestry (point estimates ranging 20–35%, Supp. Fig. 14, also see ADMIXTURE and PCA results, Figs. 2 and 4). When fit with the same five-way admixture model, present-day Sardinians have a small but detectable level of North-African ancestry (Supp. Fig. 14, also see ADMIXTURE analysis, Fig. 4)." https://www.nature.com/articles/s41467-020-14523-6#Sec2


Now explain to me if the moors were all black why would guanches be similar to modern north africans while they never met any arab or roman :


"Our results show that the Guanches were genetically similar over time and that they display the greatest genetic affinity to extant Northwest Africans, strongly supporting the hypothesis of a Berber-like origin."

"The Guanches’ Berber-like affinity is further supported by ADMIXTURE [29] analysis (Figures 3 and S3), where Guanches largely behave like modern Berbers across all values of K. At K = 10, a Northwest African-specific ancestry component makes up the greatest amount of autosomal ancestry in the Guanche and Berber populations in the HO dataset"

"The results reveal that this individual likely was lactose intolerant and had brown eyes, dark hair, and light or medium skin color. These results are similar for the other individuals where SNP information is available, albeit with lower coverage, suggesting that—at least for this sample of Guanches—the dominating phenotype was lactose intolerant, dark hair, light or medium skin color, and brown eyes "

https://www.cell.com/current-biology...822(17)31257-5

depictions of guanches :







Depictions of ancient/medieval north africans :





























I'm surprised that despite your knowledge about north africa's genetic history you still believe that most of them were black (similar to you lol) ...You're still living in a dream focus on your west african bantu region you have absolutely nothing to do with us.

Really? You're going to put it down to Afrocentrism? Sounds like something a Eurocentrist would say to counter factual evidence that ties anything with Africa.

Bantu? I'm R1b-V88 not E1b1a. No shame in that anyway.

Firstly the Ancient Natufians were dark skinned if you read the study correctly it states and i quote

"IAM people did not possess any of the European SNPs associated with light pigmentation, and most likely had dark skin and eyes."

“Figure 1. Geographical location (A) and calibrated radiocarbon date (B) of the samples 311 included in this study, as well as other ancient DNA samples from the literature. *BOT sample was not
radiocarbon dated, but was assigned to the Early Andalusian period on the basis of the associated material culture.”

“AnthropologistC. Loring Brace(1993) cross-analysed the craniometric traits of Natufian specimens with those of various ancient and modern groups from the Near East, Africa and Europe. The Late Pleistocene Epipalaeolithic Natufian sample was described as problematic due to its small size (consisting of only three males and one female), as well as the lack of a comparative sample from the Natufians' putative descendants in the Neolithic Near East.Brace observed that the Natufian fossils lay between those of theNiger-Congo-speaking populations and the other samples, which he suggested may point to a Sub-Saharan influence in their constitution.

Neolithic Levantines and Europeans all had dark dark skin, light skin in Southern Europe is only 7000-5000 years old.

citeseerx.ist.psu.edu › viewdocPDF
First European Farmers were not Eastern Europeans - CiteSeerX

https://www.sciencemag.org/news/2015...h%20frequency.

"The other gene variant,SLC45A2, was at low levels until about 5800 years ago when it swept up to high frequency."

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[Hamilcar]

Really? You're going to put it down to Afrocentrism? Sounds like something a Eurocentrist would say to counter factual evidence that ties anything with Africa.

Bantu? I'm R1b-V88 not E1b1a. No shame in that anyway.

Firstly the Ancient Natufians were dark skinned if you read the study correctly it states and i quote

"IAM people did not possess any of the European SNPs associated with light pigmentation, and most likely had dark skin and eyes."

“Figure 1. Geographical location (A) and calibrated radiocarbon date (B) of the samples 311 included in this study, as well as other ancient DNA samples from the literature. *BOT sample was not
radiocarbon dated, but was assigned to the Early Andalusian period on the basis of the associated material culture.”

“AnthropologistC. Loring Brace(1993) cross-analysed the craniometric traits of Natufian specimens with those of various ancient and modern groups from the Near East, Africa and Europe. The Late Pleistocene Epipalaeolithic Natufian sample was described as problematic due to its small size (consisting of only three males and one female), as well as the lack of a comparative sample from the Natufians' putative descendants in the Neolithic Near East.Brace observed that the Natufian fossils lay between those of theNiger-Congo-speaking populations and the other samples, which he suggested may point to a Sub-Saharan influence in their constitution.

Neolithic Levantines and Europeans all had dark dark skin, light skin in Southern Europe is only 7000-5000 years old.

citeseerx.ist.psu.edu › viewdocPDF
First European Farmers were not Eastern Europeans - CiteSeerX

https://www.sciencemag.org/news/2015...h%20frequency.

"The other gene variant,SLC45A2, was at low levels until about 5800 years ago when it swept up to high frequency."

Sent from my SM-G770F using Tapatalk

why are you even talking about this ? Who denied this ?

But what you don't really know is this :

"By 3,000 BCE, a continuity in the Neolithic spread brought Mediterranean-like ancestry to the Maghreb, most likely from Iberia. Other archaeological remains, such as African elephant ivory and ostrich eggs found in Iberian sites, confirm the existence of contacts and exchange networks through both sides of the Gibraltar strait at this time. Our analyses strongly support that at least some of the European ancestry observed today in North Africa is related to prehistoric migrations, and local Berber populations were already admixed with Europeans before the Roman conquest. Furthermore, additional European/Iberian ancestry could have reached the Maghreb after KEB people; this scenario is supported by the presence of Iberian-like Bell-Beaker pottery in more recent stratigraphic layers of IAM and KEB caves. Future paleogenomic efforts in North Africa will further disentangle the complex history of migrations that forged the ancestry of the admixed populations we observe today."

https://www.pnas.org/content/115/26/6774#sec-2

from the same study :

"On the other hand, KEB individuals exhibit some European-derived alleles that predispose individuals to lighter skin and eye color, including those on genes SLC24A5 (rs1426654) and OCA2 (rs1800401) (SI Appendix, Supplementary Note 11)."