Anatolian Turks Comment on the Battle of Mohács, Hungary

[revealman]

fuck turanism! not even 3% of hungarians have turanian blood

hungarians are 97% middle european haplogroup

hungarians have zero turkish blood

all else is turanian fantasies

[Turul Karom]

fuck turanism! not even 3% of hungarians have turanian blood

hungarians are 97% middle european haplogroup

hungarians have zero turkish blood

all else is turanian fantasies

Nice evidence you posted there. Shame you're strawmanning.

Many Turkic nations have R1 as their largest haplogroup or second largest haplogroup. So your haplogroups argument is pretty meaningless to me. Also Turkic nations recognize Hungarians as their brotherly people. Sounds like you are yelling into the wind. You also didn't read this thread's posts but rather just went fully into your supposition regarding what we're even talking about.

Do you really think even ancient cultures all had one haplogroup exclusively to their name? Do you understand that there are different Turkic peoples in the world?

You can keep shouting "it's a fantasy" all you'd like, but notice how that just doesn't seem to be very good at dismissing evidence.

[Stears]

Mohács is a critical moment of Hungarian history, as the Ottoman Empire expanded into Europe and bested the smaller and technologically ill-equipped Magyars.

But the real tragedy was that it was a fraternal battle.



Looking into history, Turkey has made shows about their past state's expansions (albeit with mixed historical costuming accuracy). Yet amongst the usual YouTube troll posting and religious commentary, the strongest support comes from those proclaiming poignant truth...

What is said today?

Technological advantage of the Western Christian forces[edit source]

The earliest type of Turkish hand cannons are called as "Şakaloz" , which world came from the Hungarian hand cannon "Szakállas puska" in the 15th century.^[14]
Although Ottoman janissaries adopted firearms in battles since the beginning of the 16th century, the Ottoman usage of the handheld firearms spread much slower than in the Western Christian armies.
Wheel-lock firearms were unfamiliar for Ottoman soldiers until the Siege of Székesgfehérvár in 1543, despite it was used for decades by Western Christian armies in Kingdom of Hungary and in Western Europe. According to a report from 1594, the Ottoman soldiers didn't adopted the pistol yet.^[15]

In 1602 the grand vizier reported from Hungarian front about the firepower superiority of the Christian forces:
"in a field or during a siege we are in distressed position, because the greater part of the enemy forces are infantry armed with muskets, while the majority of our forces are horsemen, and we have very few specialists skilled in the musket"^[16]

According to Alvise Foscarini's (Venetian ambassador in Istambul) report in 1637, "few Janissaries even knew how to use an arquebus"^[17]

[Stears]

We moved further into the west as the various empires began to fall apart. The western Göktürk Khaganate, the Khazar Empire, etc, until we ended up raiding the Europeans from the Carpathian basin as a staging ground.

Although this is not from our time as part of the Göktürk Khaganate, one of the most important sources on our people early in our history is written by Muslim scholars a century or two later (and further).

The Magyars as Turks

Ibn Rusta: The Magyars are a Turkic people.
Gardīzī: These Magyars are a Turkic people.
Ḥudūd al-ʿālam: And all these whom we have mentioned are the different categories of Turks (existing in the) world. Now we shall mention all the lands of Islam, and then the rest of the lands of the infidels, lying in the western parts.
Abūʾl-Fidāʾ: They are a Turkic people.
al-Marwazī: The Magyars are a Turkic people.
ʿAwfī: The M.ḥr.f.h [Magyars] are a Turkic people.
Shukrallāh: The seventh tribe of the Turks is called M.ḥr.q.h
Shükrallāh: The seventh people are called M.ḥr.q.h. They are of the Turks.
Muḥammad Kātib: The seventh tribe are of the Turks, and they are known by the name M.ḥr.q.h
Ḥājjī Khalīfa: One (of them) is the M.ḥr.q.h. too.

"The designation of the Magyars is m.jf.r in the Jayhānī tradition. The Hungarians were mentioned under different ethnonyms in Muslim sources, among them “Turk," which also occurred in connection with the Magyars in Greek and Latin sources. In the Muslim geographical literature the name Turk was applied to the Magyars in two different ways. On the one hand, it was used as an ethnic name for the Hungarian tribal confederation, and on the other, the Hungarian people, under various ethnic names, were regarded as belonging to the Turkic peoples."

Do read this if you have the time to glance, it has a lot of great original sources.

https://www.academia.edu/17517905/Mu...en_Boston_2015

Byzantine chronicles called the turkic people as iranians, and their language as a version of Persian in the early period of Byzantine-Turkic relations. So your similar efforts are scholarly meaningless for historians.

[oszkar07]

I think Magyars were one of the tribes that comprised Onogurs (ten-Ogurs in Turkish) and after their fall in 9th century, they started to move westwards to Etelköz while the other tribes and clans went on calling them Onogur which eventually became Hungarian

Do you see them at that time as being predominntly a Turkic/Turkic speaking clan or Uralic speaking clan.
Hungarians and any given Turkic people cannot linguistically understand each other other than a few words here and there.

[Ryujin]

Man, these neo-ottoman cucks hate everyone who are not as much uncultured and mentally challenged as them. They hate Turks too. They are not proud of being Turk or anything, they call themselves sons of Ottomans. That's what they are.

[Massagetae]

Hungarian goddess Hedvig Karakas.

[Turul Karom]

Technological advantage of the Western Christian forces[edit source]

The earliest type of Turkish hand cannons are called as "Şakaloz" , which world came from the Hungarian hand cannon "Szakállas puska" in the 15th century.^[14]
Although Ottoman janissaries adopted firearms in battles since the beginning of the 16th century, the Ottoman usage of the handheld firearms spread much slower than in the Western Christian armies.
Wheel-lock firearms were unfamiliar for Ottoman soldiers until the Siege of Székesgfehérvár in 1543, despite it was used for decades by Western Christian armies in Kingdom of Hungary and in Western Europe. According to a report from 1594, the Ottoman soldiers didn't adopted the pistol yet.^[15]

In 1602 the grand vizier reported from Hungarian front about the firepower superiority of the Christian forces:
"in a field or during a siege we are in distressed position, because the greater part of the enemy forces are infantry armed with muskets, while the majority of our forces are horsemen, and we have very few specialists skilled in the musket"^[16]

According to Alvise Foscarini's (Venetian ambassador in Istambul) report in 1637, "few Janissaries even knew how to use an arquebus"^[17]

Taken out of context. We're specifically talking about Mohács and the technology and tactics there. Also more wikipedia quoting? I thought you'd stop doing that once they said that Székely peoples are Turkic?

Regardless, the thread is about the commentary. You like our Ugric admixture better, yes? Or is that still too "eastern" for you? I encourage you to find the equivalent support from them.

Byzantine chronicles called the turkic people as iranians, and their language as a version of Persian in the early period of Byzantine-Turkic relations. So your similar efforts are scholarly meaningless for historians.

Except that historians claim that the early Muslim chronicles are some of the most important records of our early history. Ergo, when everyone is saying we're Turkic, you would think it matters... hence why you will never dispel the truth. Hence why so many Turkic people around the world support us as family. You're quite Turkic-shifted yourself, DNA-wise.

[Mingle]

Man, these neo-ottoman cucks hate everyone who are not as much uncultured and mentally challenged as them. They hate Turks too. They are not proud of being Turk or anything, they call themselves sons of Ottomans. That's what they are.

I remember seeing a video posted by a Turkish liberal regarding an interview of Turkish people in the Netherlands, forget the exact context of the video. But in it, an interviewer asked one guy in Dutch "You're Turkish right?" and then the Turk replied "No I'm Ottoman not Turkish!" I think saying statements as extreme as that would be very rare though, even for AKP supporters.

[Mingle]

fuck turanism! not even 3% of hungarians have turanian blood

hungarians are 97% middle european haplogroup

hungarians have zero turkish blood

all else is turanian fantasies

Basically, modern day Hungarians are a typical Middle European people with the only thing differentiating them from other Middle Europeans is language. Not culture or genetics, but only language.

This is a quote from a banned former Hungarian member of this site:

Exactly, one reasonable man has to take things just for what they are. I used to fantasize about Attila, Arpad, Turkic and Uralic horde warriors before. I then learned me and my ethnic group was basically similar to all the Slavs, Romanians and Germans surrounding us and I didn't like it initially But I learned to accept the truth later.

Wonder if Turul Karom will ever turn out to be like him