Maniot gedmatch

[vbnetkhio]

What is the Maniot's kit number?



Macedonia received many Anatolian Greek refugees after Greek-Turkish conflicts.

This person could be someone with an Anatolian Greek grandparent, for example.

and his other ancestors were North Italian like?

he looks to me like a local with less Slavic influence. I think most northern Greeks can be modelled as this person + some extra Slavic influence.

[xripkan]

it's better to say Greek from an isolated area. Like the islands, but it can be an isolated mainland area like Mani.

This Macedonian Greek has less Baltic than this Maniot:

Admix Results (sorted):

# Population Percent
1 North_Atlantic 25.5
2 East_Med 22.79
3 West_Med 22.49
4 West_Asian 13.2
5 Baltic 9.92
6 Red_Sea 3.73
7 Amerindian 1.08
8 Northeast_African 1.02
9 East_Asian 0.28

Single Population Sharing:

# Population (source) Distance
1 Tuscan 4.83
2 Italian_Abruzzo 5.94
3 West_Sicilian 7.28
4 Greek_Thessaly 8.64
5 North_Italian 9
6 Central_Greek 9.76
7 East_Sicilian 10.42
8 South_Italian 11.66
9 Bulgarian 13.98
10 Ashkenazi 14.39
11 Romanian 14.66
12 Spanish_Extremadura 16.53
13 Portuguese 16.83
14 Spanish_Andalucia 17.37
15 Sephardic_Jewish 17.4
16 Italian_Jewish 17.64
17 Spanish_Murcia 17.72
18 Spanish_Galicia 18.09
19 Serbian 18.12
20 Algerian_Jewish 18.28

Mixed Mode Population Sharing:

# Primary Population (source) Secondary Population (source) Distance
1 79.4% North_Italian + 20.6% Georgian_Jewish @ 1.89
2 89.5% Tuscan + 10.5% Ossetian @ 1.98
3 80.4% Italian_Abruzzo + 19.6% Southwest_French @ 2.05
4 89.8% Tuscan + 10.2% North_Ossetian @ 2.05
5 89.4% Tuscan + 10.6% Chechen @ 2.05
6 89.4% Tuscan + 10.6% Adygei @ 2.08
7 89.2% Tuscan + 10.8% Kabardin @ 2.08
8 79.3% North_Italian + 20.7% Armenian @ 2.08
9 89.1% Tuscan + 10.9% Balkar @ 2.09
10 89.8% Tuscan + 10.2% Tabassaran @ 2.17
11 79.4% Italian_Abruzzo + 20.6% Spanish_Cantabria @ 2.2
12 89.8% Tuscan + 10.2% Lezgin @ 2.2
13 88.5% Tuscan + 11.5% Kumyk @ 2.24
14 79.2% North_Italian + 20.8% Assyrian @ 2.25
15 90.4% Tuscan + 9.6% Georgian @ 2.28
16 91.1% Tuscan + 8.9% Abhkasian @ 2.36
17 78% Italian_Abruzzo + 22% Spanish_Castilla_La_Mancha @ 2.41
18 61.5% Italian_Abruzzo + 38.5% North_Italian @ 2.44
19 76.8% Italian_Abruzzo + 23.2% Spanish_Galicia @ 2.44
20 74.7% North_Italian + 25.3% Turkish @ 2.46

Very interesting results! This individual has high native Balkan ancestry. I exclude the possibility of Anatolian ancestry that Peterski mentions because the rest is modelled as North Italian. Do you know his gedmatch kit number?

[Coolguy1]

I dont have his kit number anymore. And by the way, the only way I was able to discern that he has Maniot ancestry was through his surname, which ends in "Akos", and is characteristically Maniot. That being said, I dont know if he is full Maniot, so this thread should be put to rest.

[Deusex99]

I know Copper Age Italy didn't have steppe, thus the qualifier that R437 does have some steppe ancestry and it's not exactly a two-way model. Also, here's the table from the supplementary section showing their two-way model:


And from the published paper:


Now, while I don't completely trust G25, I made a few models based on R437 anyway to compare:

The Antonio et al model:
Target: ITA_Prenestini_tribe_IA_o
Distance: 3.3803% / 0.03380304
50.4 ITA_Grotta_Continenza_CA
49.6 ARM_LBA

Here I add a steppe component and switch out the chalcolithic sample with a neolithic one (it admittedly didn't work with the CA sample as it rejected the steppe component):
Target: ITA_Prenestini_tribe_IA_o
Distance: 2.5148% / 0.02514792
57.4 ITA_Grotta_Continenza_N
32.4 ARM_LBA
10.2 Yamnaya_RUS_Samara

Using IA Anatolia the steppe component doesn't get rejected with CA Italy but offers a worse fit:
Target: ITA_Prenestini_tribe_IA_o
Distance: 4.7940% / 0.04794002
54.0 ITA_Grotta_Continenza_CA
36.6 TUR_IA
9.4 Yamnaya_RUS_Samara

Even though the paper didn't mention Bronze Age Anatolia in their model, I tried it anyway since you mentioned it. Curiously it becomes to dominant element, although I'm not sure how true that is in reality:
Target: ITA_Prenestini_tribe_IA_o
Distance: 1.9887% / 0.01988730
53.8 TUR_Isparta_EBA
30.8 ITA_Grotta_Continenza_CA
15.4 Yamnaya_RUS_Samara

Target: ITA_Prenestini_tribe_IA_o
Distance: 2.2060% / 0.02206050
51.2 TUR_Kaman-Kalehoyuk_MLBA
33.2 ITA_Grotta_Continenza_CA
15.6 Yamnaya_RUS_Samara

The question remains right now when and how this Anatolian/Caucasus ancestry came into this part of Italy (and in the south as well). Hopefully we'll get ancient samples from mainland southern Italy sooner rather than later that can shed more light on this.

Armenia LBA and Anatolia IA are both based on 2 outliers with elevated steppe/Siberian dna, probably Cimmerians.