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Thread: Should Greek input be considered "native" to S. Italy when assessing extent of foreign input?

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    Magna Graecia was at large Dorian and Dorians came from NW Greece. Most likely some reverse migration took place from Thessalian Neolithic expansion as far north as Proto Linear Pottery 6000 BC which is (Proto Greek from Helladic Greece + Tardenoisian (West Med + Celtic)

    Greece is historically notorious for reverse migrations even during Greek revolution Greeks migrated back to Greece from as far as Ukraine, Russia, Austria, Italy and France.

    WWI had more reverse migrations then mass emigration

    circa WW2 was emigration all the way (fuck you Germany)

    Then reverse migration occurred again from New World + Egypt + Fallen soviet states circa 1980 to 2012

    Now emigration occurred again due to Jew banking systems (fuck you Germany)

    Long story short Magna Graecia is largely Dorian and most likely migrated to Greece from Proto Linear Pottery or there abouts that colonised Sicily. My theory and sticking to it
    “For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places.” Eph. 6:12

    Definition of untrustworthy and loose character are those that don't believe in God.


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    Quote Originally Posted by catgeorge View Post
    Magna Graecia was at large Dorian and Dorians came from NW Greece. Most likely some reverse migration took place from Thessalian Neolithic expansion as far north as Proto Linear Pottery 6000 BC which is (Proto Greek from Helladic Greece + Tardenoisian (West Med + Celtic)

    Greece is historically notorious for reverse migrations even during Greek revolution Greeks migrated back to Greece from as far as Ukraine, Russia, Austria, Italy and France.

    WWI had more reverse migrations then mass emigration

    circa WW2 was emigration all the way (fuck you Germany)

    Then reverse migration occurred again from New World + Egypt + Fallen soviet states circa 1980 to 2012

    Now emigration occurred again due to Jew banking systems (fuck you Germany)

    Long story short Magna Graecia is largely Dorian and most likely migrated to Greece from Proto Linear Pottery or there abouts that colonised Sicily. My theory and sticking to it
    This all supports why parts of Sicily with higher ancient Greek input have higher Steppe also.

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    And Byzantine armies...

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    Quote Originally Posted by Sikeliot View Post
    This all supports why parts of Sicily with higher ancient Greek input have higher Steppe also.
    How much Steppe have these parts of Sicily?
    The Talmud tells us that the only language the Torah could be translated into elegantly is Greek.

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    Quote Originally Posted by cybernautic View Post
    How much Steppe have these parts of Sicily?
    On most GEDMatch calculators, that part of Sicily comes up as 1/4 of the way shifted toward northern Greeks (Thessaly and north of it).

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    Quote Originally Posted by Sikeliot View Post
    On most GEDMatch calculators, that part of Sicily comes up as 1/4 of the way shifted toward northern Greeks (Thessaly and north of it).
    yes - Thessalian neolthic had contact with Bug-Dneister (proto east European that later became Scythian/Sarmatian) and Kongemose (Proto NW European that later became Germanic) cultures + of course Tardenoisian (West Med + Celtic that later became France and Spain)
    “For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places.” Eph. 6:12

    Definition of untrustworthy and loose character are those that don't believe in God.


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    In Brazil we say greeks live like Byzantine Empire never existed...

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    Quote Originally Posted by Sacrificed Ram View Post
    In Brazil we say greeks live like Byzantine Empire never existed...
    ???

    What do you mean?
    The Talmud tells us that the only language the Torah could be translated into elegantly is Greek.

    Quote Originally Posted by catgeorge View Post
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    Quote Originally Posted by catgeorge View Post
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    Quote Originally Posted by cybernautic View Post
    ???

    What do you mean?
    Byzantine Empire embraced people from very diverse places, is more easy link some influence with historical peoples than pre-historical, like steppe component from some slav, iranic or turkic people than "ukrainian chalcolithics".

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    Quote Originally Posted by Sikeliot View Post
    One of the things I often discuss when discussing Sicilian and southern Italian DNA is that I am interested in seeing which part of Sicily or southern Italy has best maintained the ancient genetic character of the land.

    So the question becomes this: should Greek input be counted as "native" or should it be seen as a foreign input akin to that of Phoenicians, Berbers, Jews, Arabs, Normans, Gallo-Italic peoples, and so on? The answer to this question entirely changes which region should be viewed as most and least "native." If we consider Greeks native to the Aegean islands and Crete, lands that were inhabited by pre-Greek people and settled at roughly the same time as Sicily and southern Italy, then they should also be viewed as natives of southern Italy.

    If Greek is counted as native, then Apulia, Lucania, and southeast Sicily are unquestionably the most "native" regions, as they have the least input from Normans, Arabs, Phoenicians, Jews, and Berbers and are genetically the closest to Greece of all the southern Italian regions.

    If Greek is counted as "foreign," then the aforementioned regions become the most foreign-influenced because the Greek input is more substantial there, and even regions with more Middle Eastern input which have the greatest genetic distance to Greek clusters such as Palermo, Agrigento, inland central Sicily, and southern Calabria then become more native, despite absorbing some foreign input.

    The Sarno study considers Calabrese Griko and the Calabria-EastCentral Sicily cluster to be representative of the oldest genetic structure there, and finds the greatest distance between the Calabrese Griko cluster and Greeks themselves, despite them being the only Greek-speaking people remaining in that part of Italy.
    Why does it matter? Greeks overlap with Tuscans just as much and there was no ancient Hellenic influence in that region. Italy and Greece are quite close to each other, you cannot expect them to differ in genetic results much.

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