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Thread: Should Greek input be considered "native" to S. Italy when assessing extent of foreign input?

  1. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aristotle View Post
    Why does it matter? Greeks overlap with Tuscans just as much and there was no ancient Hellenic influence in that region. Italy and Greece are quite close to each other, you cannot expect them to differ in genetic results much.
    Greeks don t overlap with Tuscans.

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    Quote Originally Posted by GiCa View Post
    Greeks don t overlap with Tuscans.
    This is true - the distance to Tuscan is averaging a little too far as we do with Bulgaria......bt it's not very far
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    Quote Originally Posted by GiCa View Post
    Greeks don t overlap with Tuscans.
    There are Greeks that plot as far north as Tuscans, but shifted eastward.

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    I would say native since its very old already

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    Quote Originally Posted by GiCa View Post
    Greeks don t overlap with Tuscans.
    I would guess there are Southern shifted Tuscans who aren't terribly distant from Southern Greeks (who may shift West). Overlap may be a stretch though. I would guess certain mainland Greeks (particularly Peloponnesians)are closer to Central Italians, Molise, Apulia (less Abruzzo). Not sure about Lazio or Marche.
    Punt DNAL K15 Single Pop Sharing Tuscan 2.07
    Mixed Mode Pop Sharing: 65.1% Tuscan+34.9% Greek_Thessaly @ 1.41
    Eurogenes K 13 Single Pop Sharing Greek Thessaly 3.72
    Mixed Mode Pop Sharing 69.5% South_Italian+30.5% Hungarian @ 2.56
    MDLP K 16 Single Pop Sharing Greek (Greece) 3.62
    Mixed Mode Pop Sharing: 58.3% Greek (Macedonia)+41.7% Italian (Bergamo)@ 2.5

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    Quote Originally Posted by kleenex View Post
    I would guess there are Southern shifted Tuscans who aren't terribly distant from Southern Greeks (who may shift West). Overlap may be a stretch though. I would guess certain mainland Greeks (particularly Peloponnesians)are closer to Central Italians, Molise, Apulia (less Abruzzo). Not sure about Lazio or Marche.

    Molise is close to Abruzzo. Oddly enough Apulians have a northward shift despite being located to the south.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Sikeliot View Post
    Molise is close to Abruzzo. Oddly enough Apulians have a northward shift despite being located to the south.
    I've noticed that.
    Punt DNAL K15 Single Pop Sharing Tuscan 2.07
    Mixed Mode Pop Sharing: 65.1% Tuscan+34.9% Greek_Thessaly @ 1.41
    Eurogenes K 13 Single Pop Sharing Greek Thessaly 3.72
    Mixed Mode Pop Sharing 69.5% South_Italian+30.5% Hungarian @ 2.56
    MDLP K 16 Single Pop Sharing Greek (Greece) 3.62
    Mixed Mode Pop Sharing: 58.3% Greek (Macedonia)+41.7% Italian (Bergamo)@ 2.5

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    you are really a retard man

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    Quote Originally Posted by Sikeliot View Post
    One of the things I often discuss when discussing Sicilian and southern Italian DNA is that I am interested in seeing which part of Sicily or southern Italy has best maintained the ancient genetic character of the land.

    So the question becomes this: should Greek input be counted as "native" or should it be seen as a foreign input akin to that of Phoenicians, Berbers, Jews, Arabs, Normans, Gallo-Italic peoples, and so on? The answer to this question entirely changes which region should be viewed as most and least "native." If we consider Greeks native to the Aegean islands and Crete, lands that were inhabited by pre-Greek people and settled at roughly the same time as Sicily and southern Italy, then they should also be viewed as natives of southern Italy.

    If Greek is counted as native, then Apulia, Lucania, and southeast Sicily are unquestionably the most "native" regions, as they have the least input from Normans, Arabs, Phoenicians, Jews, and Berbers and are genetically the closest to Greece of all the southern Italian regions.

    If Greek is counted as "foreign," then the aforementioned regions become the most foreign-influenced because the Greek input is more substantial there, and even regions with more Middle Eastern input which have the greatest genetic distance to Greek clusters such as Palermo, Agrigento, inland central Sicily, and southern Calabria then become more native, despite absorbing some foreign input.

    The Sarno study considers Calabrese Griko and the Calabria-EastCentral Sicily cluster to be representative of the oldest genetic structure there, and finds the greatest distance between the Calabrese Griko cluster and Greeks themselves, despite them being the only Greek-speaking people remaining in that part of Italy.
    Greeks are foreign.
    Different culture, nation, language, and different genetics.
    Modern Italians are generally Catholics and most Greeks are Greek Orthodox.
    Two distinct peoples.
    They may have a genetic blending point, but still not the same.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Sikeliot View Post
    So everything that comes after Greek input should be considered foreign then, like Arab, Berber, Norman, Spanish, and Gallo-Italic?
    No, Greek input is foreign. Italic input is the native input in Sicily, since it's part of Italy.

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