Proto-Celtic/Celtic ethnogenesis?

[TheOldNorth]

Not really what? You can easily use Global25 and compare Bronze Age Iberians with Iron Age Celtiberians, and Bronze Age Britons/Irish with Iron Age (and modern) Britons/Irish to see that both were impacted by a Hallstatt-like population in that interval.

how much was iron age irish impacted?

[Creoda]

how much was iron age irish impacted?

There are no Iron Age Irish samples, but see this earlier post from Token.
https://www.theapricity.com/forum/sh...=1#post5780952

qpAdm run targeting Iron Age Britons. It looks like a mass replacement to me.

England_IA
Britain_&_Ireland_BA 0.555±0.172
Hallstatt 0.445±0.172
chisq 18.513
tail prob 0.100973

Modern-day Irish people also shows substantial Hallstatt-like contribution, no matter which sample from the Bronze Age British Isles you are using as reference.

"distance%=2.1656"
Irish
Ireland_EBA,68.6
Hallstatt_Bylany,31.4

Modern Irish ought to have similar or less amounts of Hallstatt-like influence compared to Iron Age Irish (considering later Germanic influence).

All peoples of the British Isles are noticeably southern shifted compared to their Bronze Age counterparts. IMO that can only be from one thing.

[Grace O'Malley]

There are no Iron Age Irish samples, but see this earlier post from Token.
https://www.theapricity.com/forum/sh...=1#post5780952


Modern Irish ought to have similar or less amounts of Hallstatt-like influence compared to Iron Age Irish (considering later Germanic influence).

All peoples of the British Isles are noticeably southern shifted compared to their Bronze Age counterparts. IMO that can only be from one thing.

The only way we will know is by using ancient genomes from different periods and comparing. While the model above is interesting the Hallstatt amount would be inflated because the Irish have changed from Rathlin. Personally I doubt Hallstatt had mach an impact on the Irish but I'm waiting on the Cassidy paper which I'm sure will cover this.

This is what you get using different models.

"sample": "Irish:Average",
"fit": 1.2669,
"England_Saxon": 100,
"IRL_BA": 0,

{"sample": "Irish:Average",
"fit": 1.6765,
"SWE_Viking_Age_Sigtuna": 81.67,
"IRL_BA": 18.33,

"sample": "Irish:Average",
"fit": 1.073,
"England_Saxon": 88.33,
"CZE_Hallstatt_Bylany": 11.67,
"IRL_BA": 0,

So I don't think using the Bronze Age Irish and something else is going what further populations contributed to the Irish. By May next year the Cassidy paper will be released and hopefully we will have a lot more Irish samples.

[SharpFork]

The only way we will know is by using ancient genomes from different periods and comparing. While the model above is interesting the Hallstatt amount would be inflated because the Irish have changed from Rathlin. Personally I doubt Hallstatt had mach an impact on the Irish but I'm waiting on the Cassidy paper which I'm sure will cover this.

This is what you get using different models.

"sample": "Irish:Average",
"fit": 1.2669,
"England_Saxon": 100,
"IRL_BA": 0,

{"sample": "Irish:Average",
"fit": 1.6765,
"SWE_Viking_Age_Sigtuna": 81.67,
"IRL_BA": 18.33,

"sample": "Irish:Average",
"fit": 1.073,
"England_Saxon": 88.33,
"CZE_Hallstatt_Bylany": 11.67,
"IRL_BA": 0,

So I don't think using the Bronze Age Irish and something else is going what further populations contributed to the Irish. By May next year the Cassidy paper will be released and hopefully we will have a lot more Irish samples.

How come Irish have so little Bronze Age indigenous component when using Viking samples as well?

[TheOldNorth]

How come Irish have so little Bronze Age indigenous component when using Viking samples as well?

the samples might have been from the northern or eastern regions of Ireland

[SharpFork]

the samples might have been from the northern or eastern regions of Ireland

It shouldn't matter, it's not like Scandinavians and Irish experienced the same genetic drift, one would still mostly Bronze Age admixture.

[TheOldNorth]

It shouldn't matter, it's not like Scandinavians and Irish experienced the same genetic drift, one would still mostly Bronze Age admixture.

not unless the neolithic 'black irish' genes were more common among the lower class, who are less likely to marry outwards

[Creoda]

It shouldn't matter, it's not like Scandinavians and Irish experienced the same genetic drift, one would still mostly Bronze Age admixture.

It's very probable that the Irish are descended mostly from Bronze Age Irish/British, those particular models just aren't very good.

[Dick]

The only way we will know is by using ancient genomes from different periods and comparing. While the model above is interesting the Hallstatt amount would be inflated because the Irish have changed from Rathlin. Personally I doubt Hallstatt had mach an impact on the Irish but I'm waiting on the Cassidy paper which I'm sure will cover this.

This is what you get using different models.

"sample": "Irish:Average",
"fit": 1.2669,
"England_Saxon": 100,
"IRL_BA": 0,

{"sample": "Irish:Average",
"fit": 1.6765,
"SWE_Viking_Age_Sigtuna": 81.67,
"IRL_BA": 18.33,

"sample": "Irish:Average",
"fit": 1.073,
"England_Saxon": 88.33,
"CZE_Hallstatt_Bylany": 11.67,
"IRL_BA": 0,

So I don't think using the Bronze Age Irish and something else is going what further populations contributed to the Irish. By May next year the Cassidy paper will be released and hopefully we will have a lot more Irish samples.

Try using only Bronze Age samples