Why are Northern Italians lighter than Iberians despite being more southern genetically?

[Damião de Góis]

EHG were dark skins too in the mesolithic

About the same EHG for both. Spain average looks even a tad higher on EHG at first sight, it's because of the little green bar on the right (SSA), hard to see but it's there. Iberians are more WHG for sure and it pulls someone so much north, this is the reason they are the most norther plotting southern Euro (besides some Balkan closer to the Alps, like Slovenians/Croats), even with a little NA, WHG is very intense in how it pulls, specially if it gets replaced by something like Iran_N.

If these components determine pigmentation then how do you explain people of the same ethnicity having completely different pigmentation and having the same genetic results?

[L.o.l.i.t.a]

Most Northern Italians are Noric, which is a Nordo-Dinaric type. They have Dinaricized features, but light or medium pigmentation.

Most Iberians are Atlanto-Med, which is mostly Med with some Atlanto/Nordic influence.

So Iberians are darker but have more Western facial features.

The question is, why are Northern Italians lighter despite their more southerly genetics?

(A similar phenomenon applies to Greeks and Ashkenazim - Greeks are more northern, but Ashkenazim are lighter.)

I don't think there is a relevant difference between the two. For some reason the myth was created that northern Italians are different from other southern Europeans, but on average I see no difference. I see a difference between northern Italians and Cretans or Sardinians, but nothing relevant with other southern Europeans.

[caviezel]

I don't think there is a relevant difference between the two. For some reason the myth was created that northern Italians are different from other southern Europeans, but on average I see no difference. I see a difference between northern Italians and Cretans or Sardinians, but nothing relevant with other southern Europeans.

yes, in the sense that all Southern Europeans are not swarthy or West Asian looking, they look perfectly white caucasians and distinct from North Africans and Levantines. :-D only insecure MENA people living in Europe are perpetuating that nonsense X-D

[Petalpusher]

If these components determine pigmentation then how do you explain people of the same ethnicity having completely different pigmentation and having the same genetic results?

They might define a possible spectrum. Pigmentation isn't defined by a lot of genes, let's say around 100, which is nothing in your whole genome, there are probably hundreds or thousands of times more genes involved in your skull, other features, let alone complex organs, such as the brain. But you still run the wheel each time for pigmentation to get your particular genotype and you have x% of chance to get something associated with this or that type of ancestry based on your admixture proportions.

You can even go further, siblings often look different, at least superficially and in pigmentation, but it's not like one can look Asian, another one European and the last one full on African, it still has to be statistically realistic unlike winning the lottery hundreds of time in a row. So I agree, individually, it doesnt predict much, up to a point. Most Europeans have enough admixture in common from all four corners to look like pretty much anything found inside Europe and a few groups have enough from outside Europe to show some visible influence every now and then. Then it's more a matter of average frequency in general.

[Kenshiro]

No, they are not.

On average yes, they are, I have been in both places, the Spaniards of Burgos and Santibañez-Zarzaguda (I went there in a sort of Erasmus) are on average darker in complexion than the Venetians and Lombards

[Cristiano viejo]

On average yes, they are, I have been in both places, the Spaniards of Burgos and Santibañez-Zarzaguda (I went there in a sort of Erasmus) are on average darker in complexion than the Venetians and Lombards

You wish.

[Kenshiro]

You wish.

And why should I? I'm not a neo-Nazi hahaha, I simply said that in terms of pigmentation the northern Italians from what I saw are lighter than the Spaniards, and the fact that others have realized this confirms what i have seen, desires are far too important to waste on such bullshit

[brechen]

It's called Invasion, they were as Iberians before that happen

[Cristiano viejo]

And why should I? I'm not a neo-Nazi hahaha, I simply said that in terms of pigmentation the northern Italians from what I saw are lighter than the Spaniards, and the fact that others have realized this confirms what i have seen, desires are far too important to waste on such bullshit

Because you are Italian, ofc

[Kenshiro]

Because you are Italian, ofc

I honestly do not understand why you are offended when someone tells you that you are also a Mediterranean population, I have been there in Spain, it is clear that you have a darker complexion on average than in northern Italy, it is much warmer in Spain than in northern Italy, I'm not a "patriot" or similar bullshit, so I don't really care who is more "white" also because being neither Northern Italian nor Spanish is a pseudo-war that doesn't concern me, but you have to be objective, the simple complexion is on average darker in Spain, which is also obvious considering the geography of the two territories, also because the Spanish Nordic is usually Atlantic, in Northern Italy it is of Germanic/Central European descent