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Thread: Genetic map of Montenegro

  1. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aspar View Post
    R1b in Montenegro is different than the Germanic one.
    It's L23 and is found mostly in Armenia, Anatolia and the Balkans.



    [rl=https://postimages.org/][im]https://s9.postimg.cc/79zc1twtb/Haplogroup-_R1b-_L23.gif[/img][/url]
    The vast majority of it also belongs to R1b>BY611 below L23, which in them is linked to Albanians and clans which have Albanian origin.
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    - Ibn Kemal, Historian of the Turkish court during Skanderbeg's war against the Turks.

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  3. #23
    Veteran Member Kelmendasi's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Morlak View Post
    Probably though this Cetinje tribe is very diverse considering it is made of couple of branches. I have read now from Serbian DNA Project that R1a is mostly common in tribes of Piperi and in some branches of Vasojevic tribe. It is also located in Northern Montenegro around Berane city.
    Isn't Piperi mainly R1b-BY611 or is that just a branch? Iirc the majority were R1b. R1a is also found in some Kuqi clansmen
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    The Albanians, these tigers of mountain wars ... have as their religion rebellion. Even their worst warrior is one of the strongest and bravest on the battle-field, just as if he was a knight on the legendary horse. But he has no horse, nor proper weapons for battle. Instead of the horse, he has a lance which strikes as lightning, he has spears who's points are full of posion as the sting of hornets, he has also a wooden bow with some arrows. Furthermore, he is stronger than iron ...

    - Ibn Kemal, Historian of the Turkish court during Skanderbeg's war against the Turks.

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    Senior Member Morlak's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kelmendasi View Post
    Isn't Piperi mainly R1b-BY611 or is that just a branch? Iirc the majority were R1b. R1a is also found in some Kuqi clansmen
    Yes, you are right in Piperi the most common is R1b but in some cases they found also r1a.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Morlak View Post
    This was made according to 156 examples from Serbian DNA Project.
    [IMG]http://i.imgur.com/0Cfnh5z.jpg[/IMG
    An utterly bad map, to be honest. It really shows the most characteristic/unusual haplogroup by certain region, not the most common one. Pljevlja (marked in dark green - J2b1) still has an I2a1b majority, Podgorica (marked as E1b) still has an I2a1b majority, and plenty of other places do so as well.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Aspar View Post
    R1b in Montenegro is different than the Germanic one.
    It's L23 and is found mostly in Armenia, Anatolia and the Balkans.
    The most common one is actually U152 (Morača clan). There is one clan with L23 (Piperi), but it is nowhere near as large as the U152 one, and there are several smaller clans and brotherhoods which bear U106.

    L23 is Yamnayan, U152 is Bell Beaker, U106 is (mostly) Corded Ware.

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    Veteran Member Kelmendasi's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by cosmoo View Post
    The most common one is actually U152 (Morača clan). There is one clan with L23 (Piperi), but it is nowhere near as large as the U152 one, and there are several smaller clans and brotherhoods which bear U106.

    L23 is Yamnayan, U152 is Bell Beaker, U106 is (mostly) Corded Ware.
    Really? Z2103 seems to be the most common R1b clade in the Serbian DNA project but idk how many are from Montenegro. R1b-U152 maps show that there is a very low percentage of it in the Balkans but the accuracy of these maps can be questionable
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    The Albanians, these tigers of mountain wars ... have as their religion rebellion. Even their worst warrior is one of the strongest and bravest on the battle-field, just as if he was a knight on the legendary horse. But he has no horse, nor proper weapons for battle. Instead of the horse, he has a lance which strikes as lightning, he has spears who's points are full of posion as the sting of hornets, he has also a wooden bow with some arrows. Furthermore, he is stronger than iron ...

    - Ibn Kemal, Historian of the Turkish court during Skanderbeg's war against the Turks.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Kelmendasi View Post
    Really? Z2103 seems to be the most common R1b clade in the Serbian DNA project but idk how many are from Montenegro.
    Z2013 is indeed very common among Montenegrin R1b's. The reason I brought up U152 is our largest R1b clan being U152.
    Quote Originally Posted by Kelmendasi View Post
    R1b-U152 maps show that there is a very low percentage of it in the Balkans but the accuracy of these maps can be questionable
    It was not even known until recent SNP testings. And those maps (especially those by Maciamo of Eupedia) are often wrong about much bigger territories, overlooking a land as small as Montenegro should not come as any surprise.

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    Veteran Member Kelmendasi's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by cosmoo View Post
    Z2013 is indeed very common among Montenegrin R1b's. The reason I brought up U152 is our largest R1b clan being U152.

    It was not even known until recent SNP testings. And those maps (especially those by Maciamo of Eupedia) are often wrong about much bigger territories, overlooking a land as small as Montenegro should not come as any surprise.
    Interesting, would this R1b-U152 be due to Roman/Vlach input? Yh the maps made do have many errors
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    The Albanians, these tigers of mountain wars ... have as their religion rebellion. Even their worst warrior is one of the strongest and bravest on the battle-field, just as if he was a knight on the legendary horse. But he has no horse, nor proper weapons for battle. Instead of the horse, he has a lance which strikes as lightning, he has spears who's points are full of posion as the sting of hornets, he has also a wooden bow with some arrows. Furthermore, he is stronger than iron ...

    - Ibn Kemal, Historian of the Turkish court during Skanderbeg's war against the Turks.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Kelmendasi View Post
    Interesting, would this R1b-U152 be due to Roman/Vlach input? Yh the maps made do have many errors
    I am not sure of its origins, given that it seems to be negative to all the most common clades downstream of U152.

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