Italians vs Spaniards

[Aspirin]

First, they were not who expelled the Muslims, to start with. That happened when the Reconquista finished.

Nope. The King Ferdinand II of Aragon who kicked out from Iberia the last kebabs, was of visigothic descent. So they started, they finished.

Second, let imagine that they were Visigoths. Visigoths at that instance were a mix of Germanic and Iberian, so your claim "not Iberian" is ridicolous.

Do you really believe what germans will mix with random peasants? Maybe with some most powerful local nobility, but not with majority of population. They ruled Iberia for 300 years, and was the elite without any mixing all this time. I don't think so that after the muslim conquest, they had started to mix very quickly with natives and disapear like dinosaurs.

This, don Pelayo, first king of Asturias and promotor of the Reconquista, was Asturian, not Visigoth (could he have Visigoth ancestry? yes, same than myself or any other Spanish), and the majority of the scholars so say it. So it is funny that you posted him as a proof, when it is the contrary.

La historiografía moderna no alberga duda sobre su existencia histórica real y aunque su origen aún sigue siendo controvertido la mayor parte se inclina por asignarle un origen astur.

https://es.wikipedia.org/wiki/Don_Pelayo

How he can be an asturian if he founded Kingdom of Asturias? On the what basis he became an asturian before the foundation of this Kingdom. Where is the logic? He is everywhere named a visigoth, not an asturian, and to give me as a proof the spanish version of his biography from Wikipedia, it's just laughable. Still, this has not change anything, he clearly was of germanic descent, no matter how he identified himself.

Love this quote:

The Visigothic kingdom was the origin of the Spanish nation.

[caviezel]

We must give credit to Cristiano Viejo for considering Valle D'Aosta italian since there's some crazy mofo who thinks it's french but objectively speaking Aosta is no more french than Catalonia is. Aosta Valley is a post WWII creation of communists who wanted a captive market for their votes but if you go there you won't hear anyone speaking french. As a matter of fact they never spoke French, only a patois that is intermediate between Italian and French.

[Cristiano viejo]

Nope. The King Ferdinand II of Aragon who kicked out from Iberia the last kebabs, was of visigothic descent. So they started, they finished.

Like 100% of Spaniards.

Having one drop of Visigothic blood ≠ being a Visigoth.

I find your example of the Catholic king very weird. He was not more Germanic by blood than any random Spaniard.

Do you really believe what germans will mix with random peasants? Maybe with some most powerful local nobility, but not with majority of population.

Of course they did. Visigoth king Leovigildo forbade the law that avoided the marriages between Visigoths and Iberians, in his Codex Revisus. Dont try to discuss Spanish history with a Spaniard, I doubt you know many things about our history.

They ruled Iberia for 300 years, and was the elite without any mixing all this time. I don't think so that after muslim conquest, they had started to mix very quickly with natives and disapear like dinosaurs.

So Spaniards were in America, the elite, and yes, they mixed with natives. Your logic does not work.

How he can be an asturian if he founded The Asturian Kingdom? On the what base, he became an asturian before the foundation of this Kingdom. Where is the logic?

lol, so an Andalusian can not be an Andalusian because never there was an Andalusian kingdom???
Are you kidding me or what?

He was Astur, not Asturian, if you prefer

He is everyhere named a visigoth, not an asturian, and to give me as a proof the spanish version of his biography from Wikipedia, it's just laughable.

False, he is portrayed as Asturian (sorry, Astur for you ) for the most of historians and scholars.

Love this quote:

And it is true, but it has nothing to do with what we are discussing.

[Aspirin]

Like 100% of Spaniards.

Having one drop of Visigothic blood ≠ being a Visigoth.

I find your example of the Catholic king very weird. He was not more Germanic by blood than any random Spaniard.

From where you know what he had only one drop? He was a direct descendet of Visigothic Kings who ruled over Iberia since Roman times, and was direct descendat of Pelayo, the Visigothic nobleman who founded the Kingdom of Asturias and started the Reconquista. All the Royal dinasties from Western Europe are of germano-scandinavian descent, it's imposible what Spain is something speical, it's the same scenario like France and England, where after the conquest of this territories, germans became the elite, and native population, the peasants. One drope rule, especially in Royal dinasties, was allways very important, in his case he had much more whan just one drop.

Of course they did. Visigoth king Leovigildo forbade the law that avoided the marriages between Visigoths and Iberians, in his Codex Revisus. Dont try to discuss Spanish history with a Spaniard, I doubt you know many things about our history.

I don't even pretend to know your history, what I see what you as a Spaniard clearly don't know many things from your history to, especially when you wrote me what Reconquista was started by "Iberian native", referring to Visigoths like something not native and weak, when basically all of your Rulers since Roman times was of Visighotic descent with practically direct succession between them. This clearly makes you think.

lol, so an Andalusian can not be an Andalusian because never there was an Andalusian kingdom???
Are you kidding me or what?

Andalusians are named after the Kebab territory who was here many centuries, so I am right.

He was Astur, not Asturian, if you prefer

My bad.

False, he is portrayed as Asturian (sorry, Astur for you ) for the most of historians and scholars.

Of course, today Spaniards really knows who he was, and how he identified himself 1300 years ago. LMAO

[Ruggery]

No, sorry, dont complain. If you claim Muslims ruled Spain 700 years, why can I not to claim Muslims ruled Italy 300 years too?

Arabs can be proud... but native Spaniards crushed and expelled them... in Sicily it had to arrive Normans to do it

The native Spaniards who came from Asturias were Celts, Iberians, Visigoths or Suevos?

[jobodwannaa]

OT: As a northern Italian, I feel more related to Iberians, Romanians and French people than to southern Italians, both culturally and genetically:

[Regnera]

Not one single serious anthropologist has ever connected "atlantids" to Spaniards.

There're Atlantids in Northern Iberia

[TrulyBliss]

OT: As a northern Italian, I feel more related to Iberians, Romanians and French people than to southern Italians, both culturally and genetically:

That can't make sense. Northern Italians are far more related to Southern Italians culturally and genetically.

[renaissance12]

Yes. Since the year 938 until the year 1000.

62 years..

The arabs left more and less nothing that can be defined arabic in Val d'Aosta

Cool story. Now go to eat some Moorish cuscus while you continue dreaming.


And Italians of this, specially yourself


More:
http://english.alarabiya.net/en/pers...a-journey.html

There was a huge difference between making business with the muslims ( Venice made great deals - culturally and economically- with the advanced islamic civilization nobody can deny that arabs were an advanced society..) and being invaded by the arabs and becoming "arabics".... Do you agree ?.. it Is the same difference between a "slave" and a free man.. You were not slaves ? Ok.. it means you were arabic happy citizens..

How many... two or three?

The ironic thing is that some Unesco sites in Italy also are Islamic

Spain

N° 5 ( or 6 ? ) Ancient roman sites
N° 5 Arabic/islamic sites and cities

Italy

N° 1 a small "building" - not an entire city- in Palermo Sicily


Spain wins.. 5 to 1






Be proud and not be ashamed of your ancestors who lived and prospered in Spain for 700 years

The period of islamic spain is seen as the "Golden age" of arabs..

Islamic Spain is a Spanish pride

For a while Muslims were more advanced than europeans ( except Italians of course )

That was the elite that was defeated by Muslims, paradoxically.
Those who expelled Muslims were Iberian natives.

Nothing to do with the Sicilian case.

You took 700 years to expell muslims.... it was not a great feat.....because the islamic empire was already declining..

[renaissance12]

We must give credit to Cristiano Viejo for considering Valle D'Aosta italian since there's some crazy mofo who thinks it's french but objectively speaking Aosta is no more french than Catalonia is. Aosta Valley is a post WWII creation of communists who wanted a captive market for their votes but if you go there you won't hear anyone speaking french. As a matter of fact they never spoke French, only a patois that is intermediate between Italian and French.

Till 1860 Alps area of France and France Switzerland were "Italian"..