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What do Russians think about Kaliningrad Oblast?
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Thread: What do Russians think about Kaliningrad Oblast?

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    Default What do Russians think about Kaliningrad Oblast?

    What do you think about this "unsinkable aircraft carrier" on the Baltic coast?

    Do you consider it as Russia's spoils of war, a prize for defeating Nazi Germany?

    Do you think it should continue to be part of Russia or become independent?

    Is it a popular Summer vacation destination for Russian tourists or not really?

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    It should revert to Germany and be repopulated with East Prussian descendants.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Bobby Martnen View Post
    It should revert to Germany and be repopulated with East Prussian descendants.
    You can't expel its modern Russian inhabitants, it would be another injustice.

    But I do think that it should eventually become an independent territory.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Bobby Martnen View Post
    It should revert to Germany and be repopulated with East Prussian descendants.
    https://coub.com/view/xrd1f

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    Quote Originally Posted by ЛыSSый View Post
    Afraid to open zis link blyat.

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    It should be handed over to a third more neutral nation, Poland.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Danielion View Post
    It should be handed over to a third more neutral nation, Poland.
    Why not made independent or split between Poland and Lithuania? Lithuania already has many Russians, unlike Poland.

    Based on Russian 2010 census, Kaliningrad Oblast had 941,873 inhabitants, including:

    48,021 ethnicity not reported (5.09%)

    And 94.91% reported their ethnicity, including:

    772,534 Russians (82.02%)
    32,771 Ukrainians (3.48%)
    32,497 Belarusians (3.45%)
    9,769 Lithuanians (1.04%)
    9,226 Armenians (0.98%)
    7,349 Germans (0.78%)
    4,534 Tatars (0.48%)
    3,282 Azeris (0.35%)
    2,788 Poles (0.30%)
    2,245 Uzbeks (0.24%)
    16,857 others (1.79%)

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    Quote Originally Posted by Peterski View Post
    Why not made independent or split between Poland and Lithuania? Lithuania already has many Russians, unlike Poland.

    Based on Russian 2010 census, Kaliningrad Oblast had 941,873 inhabitants, including:

    48,021 ethnicity not reported (5.09%)

    And 94.91% reported their ethnicity, including:

    772,534 Russians (82.02%)
    32,771 Ukrainians (3.48%)
    32,497 Belarusians (3.45%)
    9,769 Lithuanians (1.04%)
    9,226 Armenians (0.98%)
    7,349 Germans (0.78%)
    4,534 Tatars (0.48%)
    3,282 Azeris (0.35%)
    2,788 Poles (0.30%)
    2,245 Uzbeks (0.24%)
    16,857 others (1.79%)
    Its look like neighboors dont like this region?
    I think best options should be that they join EU but stay officialy part of Russia.
    Its small region and they can not stay isolated forever.

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    According to some sources Lithuania was offered to annex Kaliningrad Oblast by Stalin, but refused, because it was already inhabited by Russians:

    http://historum.com/european-history...54?postcount=1

    Why Lithuania refused to accept Kaliningrad region?

    Here's a brief history. Stalin, Roosevelt and Churchill supported the idea of separation of Germany after WWII ended. There were different plans proposed. After the separation of Germany USSR and Poland received former territories of East Prussia. Most of it on the Baltic coast went to SU.

    In 1945 Soviet authorities were deciding which Soviet republic the newly acquired region should join. Both Lithuanian and Belarusian republics were considered. The choice fell on Lithuanian SSR because the republic and the region had a common border. First Secretary of Lithuanian SSR Antanas Sniečkus refused the idea. So Kaliningrad region went to RSFSR (Russian Republic).

    In 1963 Nikita Khrushev offered the region to Lithuanian SSR again. Once again First Secretary Antanas Sniečkus declined the offer.

    The last time Kaliningrad region was offered to Lithuania in 1987. Lithuania missed her chance for the last time.

    There are talks about east Prussia being a former Baltic land should have been part of Lithuania. I know many Lithuanians , possibly top officials too would like that to happen. What is the story for not taking Kaliningrad region when it was offered to Lithuania?
    Maybe they would have taken it if they had a chance to populate it with Lithuanians immediately after the fighting, before Russian settlers came. But the problem is that Lithuanians didn't even have enough manpower to repopulate areas from which Poles were removed (such as Wilno), let alone Kaliningrad.

    Eastern part of Kaliningrad Oblast used to be inhabited by Protestant Lithuanians, but by 1945 most of them had been Germanized, and even those who still identified as Lithuanians mostly fled to Germany when the Red Army invaded (there was evacuation of East Prussia in late 1944 - early 1945):

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Evacua...f_East_Prussia

    The evacuation of East Prussia was the movement of the German civilian population and military personnel from East Prussia between 20 January 1945 and March 1945, that was initially carried out by state authorities but later evolved into a chaotic flight from the Red Army.

    Although organized at the beginning, the East Prussian evacuation quickly turned into a chaotic flight due to Soviet advances. A part of the evacuation of German civilians towards the end of World War II, these events are not to be confused with the expulsion from East Prussia that followed after the war had ended. The area that was evacuated was not the Gau East Prussia, but the inter-war East Prussia where most people already held a German citizenship. German citizens in Memel and other regions with proximity to East Prussia also took part in the evacuation, wishing to escape by sea, even though in their regions there was no official evacuation announced.

    The evacuation, which had been delayed for months, was initiated due to fear of the Red Army advances during the East Prussian Offensive. Some parts of the evacuation were planned as a military necessity, Operation Hannibal being the most important military operation involved in the evacuation. However, many refugees took to the roads on their own initiative because of reported Soviet atrocities against Germans in the areas under Soviet control. Both spurious and factual accounts of Soviet atrocities were disseminated through the official news and propaganda outlets of Nazi Germany and by rumors that swept through the military and civilian populations.

    Despite having detailed evacuation plans for some areas, the German authorities, including the Gauleiter of East Prussia, Erich Koch, delayed action until 20 January, when it was too late for an orderly evacuation, and the civil services and Nazi Party were eventually overwhelmed by the numbers of those wishing to evacuate. Coupled with the panic caused by the speed of the Soviet advance, civilians caught in the middle of combat, and the bitter winter weather, many thousands of refugees died during the evacuation period.

    (...)

    The evacuation plans for parts of East Prussia were ready in the second half of 1944. They consisted of both general plans and specific instructions for many towns. The plans encompassed not only civilians, but also industry and livestock.[21]

    Initially, Erich Koch, the Gauleiter of East Prussia, forbade evacuation of civilians (until 20 January 1945), and ordered that civilians trying to flee the region without permission should be instantly shot. Any kind of preparations made by civilians were treated as defeatism and "Wehrkraftzersetzung" (undermining of military morale). Koch and many other Nazi functionaries were among the first to flee during the Soviet advance. Between 12 January and mid-February 1945, almost 8.5 million Germans fled the Eastern provinces of the Reich.[22][23] Most of the refugees were women and children heading to western parts of Germany, carrying goods on improvised means of transport, such as wooden wagons and carts, as all the motorized vehicles and fuel had been confiscated by the Wehrmacht at the beginning of the war. After the Red Army reached the coast of the Vistula Lagoon near Elbing on 23 January 1945, cutting off the overland route between East Prussia and the western territories,[24] the only way to leave was to cross the frozen Vistula Lagoon to reach the harbours of Danzig/Gdańsk or Gdingen/Gdynia to be evacuated by ships taking part in Operation Hannibal. Mingled with retreating Wehrmacht units, and without any camouflage or shelter, the refugees were attacked by Soviet bombers and fighter aircraft. Many wagons broke through the bomb-riddled ice covering the brackish water. Also horses and caretakers from the Trakehner stud farms were evacuated with the wagon trains. The evacuation was severely hampered by Wehrmacht units, which clogged roads and bridges.
    About Lithuania Minor (part of East Prussia which had been colonized by Lithuanians after the 1422 Treaty of Melno):

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Treaty_of_Melno

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lithuania_Minor



    Only Memelland was annexed by Lithuania after WW2 (it had already been part of Lithuania in 1923-1939):

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Klaipė..._of_Versailles

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prussian_Lithuanians

    The eastern boundaries of Prussia (from 1871, part of the German Empire), having remained unchanged since the Treaty of Melno in 1422, became a matter of discussion following World War I, as the newly independent states of Poland and Lithuania emerged.

    The separatist Act of Tilsit was signed by few pro-Lithuanian oriented Prussian Lithuanians in 1918, demanding the unification of Prussian Lithuania with Lithuania proper. It is traditionally viewed by Lithuanians as expressing the desire of Lithuania Minor to unite with Lithuania – but the majority of Prussian Lithuanians did not want to join with Lithuania[1] and the Prussian Lithuanians did not make up a majority of the population.

    The division of Prussia was also promoted by Poland's Roman Dmowski[2] in Versailles who acted by orders of Józef Piłsudski: the purpose was to give the lower part of Neman River and its delta, which was located in Germany and called the Memel River, to Lithuania as this would provide her access to the Baltic Sea, while Lithuania itself should be part of Poland. These ideas were supported by the French prime minister Georges Clemenceau.[3]

    In 1920, according to the Treaty of Versailles, the German area north of the Memel river was given the status of Territoire de Memel under the administration of the Council of Ambassadors, and French troops were sent for protection. During the period of French administration, the idea of an independent State of Memelland grew in popularity among local inhabitants. The organisation Deutsch-Litauischer Heimatbund (German-Lithuanian homeland federation) promoted the idea of a Freistaat Memelland, which later should return to Germany. It had 30,000 members, both ethnic Germans and Lithuanians, about 21% of the total population.
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Klaipėda_Revolt

    On 9 January 1923, three years after the Versailles Treaty had become effective, Lithuania occupied the territory during the Klaipėda Revolt,[4] mainly by militia that had entered the region from Lithuania. France at the same time had started the Occupation of the Ruhr in Germany, and the French administration in Memel did not take any significant counteractive measures against the rebels. On 19 January, the territory was annexed by Lithuania, and the fait accompli was eventually confirmed by the Council of Ambassadors in 1924.


    Lithuanian annexed Memelland in 1923, it was later annexed by Germany after an ultimatum in March 1939:

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1939_G...m_to_Lithuania

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    Quote Originally Posted by Vožd View Post
    Its look like neighboors dont like this region?
    I think best options should be that they join EU but stay officialy part of Russia.
    Its small region and they can not stay isolated forever.
    So they should be part of the EU and part of Russia at the same time?

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