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Thread: VERY ATYPICAL Gedmatch from Mayo, Connnacht province, Ireland

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    Quote Originally Posted by Bobby Martnen View Post
    They're also far removed from the Irish.
    They come up as Scandinavian.

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    Norse influence in Ireland is significant, all Irish have it this one just more than is usual.

    To add, I would never expect Iberian like input in Ireland, but in Wales yes.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Sikeliot View Post
    They come up as Scandinavian.
    I found another Irish GEDmatch that has similar results

    https://www.theapricity.com/forum/sh...09#post5098709

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    Quote Originally Posted by Sikeliot View Post
    Literally would plot next to Scandinavians and is removed from the main "Irish" cluster.

    So much for "Basque" or "Iberian" like western Ireland.

    Eurogenes K13:
    # Population Percent
    1 North_Atlantic 51.25
    2 Baltic 25.83
    3 West_Med 8.75
    4 West_Asian 7.52
    5 South_Asian 2.23
    6 Red_Sea 1.1
    7 East_Asian 0.94
    8 Amerindian 0.87
    9 Northeast_African 0.81
    10 Oceanian 0.7

    Single Population Sharing:

    # Population (source) Distance
    1 Norwegian 4.14
    2 North_Dutch 4.24
    3 Danish 4.27

    4 Irish 4.38
    5 West_Scottish 5.09
    6 Orcadian 5.27
    7 North_German 5.64
    8 Swedish 6.07

    9 Southeast_English 7.56
    10 Southwest_English 7.6
    11 South_Dutch 11.37
    12 West_German 12
    13 North_Swedish 12.23
    14 East_German 15.46
    15 Austrian 15.58
    16 French 17.13
    17 Hungarian 19.7
    18 Southwest_Finnish 20.56
    19 South_Polish 23.71
    20 Spanish_Cataluna 24.52

    Mixed Mode Population Sharing:

    # Primary Population (source) Secondary Population (source) Distance
    1 89.6% Irish + 10.4% La_Brana-1 @ 3.25
    2 96.4% Norwegian + 3.6% Sindhi @ 3.31
    3 96.4% Norwegian + 3.6% Balochi @ 3.34
    4 96.5% Norwegian + 3.5% Brahui @ 3.34
    5 96.1% Norwegian + 3.9% Punjabi_Jat @ 3.35
    6 96.7% Norwegian + 3.3% Gujarati @ 3.39
    7 96.2% Norwegian + 3.8% Kalash @ 3.39
    8 96.5% Norwegian + 3.5% Brahmin_UP @ 3.4
    9 97.1% Norwegian + 2.9% Kurumba @ 3.4
    10 97.2% Norwegian + 2.8% Velamas @ 3.42
    11 96.7% Norwegian + 3.3% Kshatriya @ 3.42
    12 64.7% Irish + 35.3% Swedish @ 3.42
    13 96.6% Norwegian + 3.4% Makrani @ 3.42
    14 96.3% Norwegian + 3.7% Burusho @ 3.43
    15 96.8% Norwegian + 3.2% Bangladeshi @ 3.43
    16 97.3% Norwegian + 2.7% Piramalai @ 3.44
    17 97.2% Norwegian + 2.8% Dusadh @ 3.44
    18 97% Norwegian + 3% Dharkar @ 3.46
    19 97.1% Norwegian + 2.9% Kanjar @ 3.46
    20 97.4% Norwegian + 2.6% Sakilli @ 3.46


    Eurogenes K15:
    # Population Percent
    1 North_Sea 43.76
    2 Atlantic 22.53
    3 Eastern_Euro 13.51
    4 Baltic 7.68
    5 West_Med 4.74
    6 West_Asian 3.37
    7 South_Asian 1.97
    8 Northeast_African 0.68
    9 Amerindian 0.59
    10 Oceanian 0.57
    11 Southeast_Asian 0.4
    12 Red_Sea 0.2

    Single Population Sharing:

    # Population (source) Distance
    1 West_Norwegian 5.66
    2 Norwegian 6.7
    3 Swedish 8.4
    4 Orcadian 8.55
    5 Danish 9
    6 North_Dutch 9
    7 North_Swedish 10.12

    8 West_Scottish 10.18
    9 Irish 11.22
    10 Southeast_English 11.46
    11 North_German 12.07
    12 Southwest_English 12.11
    13 West_German 12.76
    14 South_Dutch 15.14
    15 Southwest_Finnish 17.78
    16 East_German 18.26
    17 French 18.91
    18 Finnish 19.72
    19 Hungarian 21.92
    20 Austrian 23.17

    Mixed Mode Population Sharing:

    # Primary Population (source) Secondary Population (source) Distance
    1 96.4% West_Norwegian + 3.6% Kalash @ 5.26
    2 96.5% West_Norwegian + 3.5% Burusho @ 5.27
    3 96.5% West_Norwegian + 3.5% MA-1 @ 5.28
    4 96.5% West_Norwegian + 3.5% Punjabi_Jat @ 5.29
    5 96.7% West_Norwegian + 3.3% Pathan @ 5.32
    6 97.2% West_Norwegian + 2.8% Gujarati @ 5.32
    7 97% West_Norwegian + 3% Sindhi @ 5.33
    8 96.4% West_Norwegian + 3.6% Afghan_Pashtun @ 5.34
    9 97.1% West_Norwegian + 2.9% Brahmin_UP @ 5.35
    10 97.4% West_Norwegian + 2.6% Kshatriya @ 5.36
    11 97.4% West_Norwegian + 2.6% Bangladeshi @ 5.37
    12 97% West_Norwegian + 3% Balochi @ 5.38
    13 97% West_Norwegian + 3% Brahui @ 5.38
    14 97.7% West_Norwegian + 2.3% Kanjar @ 5.38
    15 97.8% West_Norwegian + 2.2% Kol @ 5.39
    16 97.9% West_Norwegian + 2.1% Kurumba @ 5.4
    17 98% West_Norwegian + 2% Piramalai @ 5.4
    18 97.9% West_Norwegian + 2.1% Velamas @ 5.4
    19 97.8% West_Norwegian + 2.2% Uttar_Pradesh @ 5.4
    20 97.9% West_Norwegian + 2.1% Dusadh @ 5.4


    MDLP K16:
    # Population Percent
    1 Neolithic 28.14
    2 NorthEastEuropean 27.96
    3 Steppe 26.48
    4 Caucasian 16.06
    5 Amerindian 0.94
    6 Indian 0.42

    Single Population Sharing:

    # Population (source) Distance
    1 Orcadian (Orkney_Islands) 1.97
    2 Scottish (Argyll_bute) 2.02
    3 English (Cornwall) 3.37

    4 Irish (Connacht) 3.58
    5 Norwegian (Norwegia) 3.66
    6 Shetlandic (Shetland_Islands) 3.83
    7 Irish (Cork_Kerry) 3.86
    8 Icelandic (Iceland) 3.91
    9 Irish (Ulster) 3.99
    10 English (Kent) 4.04
    11 Scottish (Highlands) 4.11
    12 Irish (Munster) 4.14
    13 Irish (Leinster) 4.72
    14 Scottish (Dumfries_Galloway) 4.75
    15 Scottish (Grampian) 4.93
    16 English (England) 5
    17 Scottish (Fife) 5.17
    18 French (WestFrance) 5.35
    19 Scottish (Borders) 5.37
    20 Swede (Sweden) 5.52

    Mixed Mode Population Sharing:

    # Primary Population (source) Secondary Population (source) Distance
    1 98.3% Orcadian (Orkney_Islands) + 1.7% Turk (Trabzon) @ 1.74
    2 98.3% Orcadian (Orkney_Islands) + 1.7% Georgian (Megrelia) @ 1.76
    3 98.2% Orcadian (Orkney_Islands) + 1.8% Adygei (Adygea) @ 1.77
    4 98.2% Orcadian (Orkney_Islands) + 1.8% Chechen (Chechnya) @ 1.78
    5 98.3% Orcadian (Orkney_Islands) + 1.7% Balkar (Kabardino-Balkaria) @ 1.79
    6 98.4% Orcadian (Orkney_Islands) + 1.6% Abkhazian (Gudauta) @ 1.8
    7 98.3% Orcadian (Orkney_Islands) + 1.7% Abkhazian_Lykhny (Lykhny) @ 1.8
    8 98.4% Orcadian (Orkney_Islands) + 1.6% Georgians (Zugdidi) @ 1.8
    9 97.5% Orcadian (Orkney_Islands) + 2.5% Greek (Athens) @ 1.8
    10 98.5% Orcadian (Orkney_Islands) + 1.5% Abhkasian (Abkhasia) @ 1.8
    11 97.7% Orcadian (Orkney_Islands) + 2.3% Greek (Greece) @ 1.8
    12 98.5% Orcadian (Orkney_Islands) + 1.5% Armenian (Armenia) @ 1.81
    13 97% Orcadian (Orkney_Islands) + 3% Greek (Thessaloniki) @ 1.81
    14 91.9% Orcadian (Orkney_Islands) + 8.1% German (Germany) @ 1.81
    15 98.4% Orcadian (Orkney_Islands) + 1.6% Georgian_Abkhazia (Abkhazia) @ 1.81
    16 98.5% Orcadian (Orkney_Islands) + 1.5% Georgian (Georgia) @ 1.81
    17 95.9% Orcadian (Orkney_Islands) + 4.1% Macedonian (Macedonia) @ 1.82
    18 96.2% Orcadian (Orkney_Islands) + 3.8% Bulgarian (Bulgaria) @ 1.82
    19 98.3% Orcadian (Orkney_Islands) + 1.7% Kumyk (Dagestan) @ 1.82
    20 97.1% Orcadian (Orkney_Islands) + 2.9% Albanian (Albania) @ 1.82



    MDLP K23:
    # Population Percent
    1 European_Hunters_Gatherers 38.23
    2 European_Early_Farmers 28.38
    3 Caucasian 18.15
    4 Ancestral_Altaic 6.77
    5 South_Central_Asian 6.44
    6 Amerindian 1.15


    Finished reading population data. 620 populations found.
    23 components mode.

    --------------------------------

    Least-squares method.

    Using 1 population approximation:
    1 North_European_ @ 3.465889
    2 Scottish_Argyll_Bute_GBR_ @ 3.503062
    3 CEU_ @ 3.595410
    4 British_ @ 3.822524
    5 English_ @ 3.949285

    6 Orcadian_ @ 4.092374
    7 Irish_ @ 4.094387
    8 Frisian_ @ 4.520367
    9 Icelandic_ @ 4.706662
    10 Norwegian_West_ @ 4.807897
    11 English_Kent_GBR_ @ 4.902139
    12 English_Cornwall_GBR_ @ 4.953223

    13 Belgian_ @ 4.986535
    14 Welsh_ @ 5.174549
    15 Dutch_ @ 5.904201
    16 Norwegian_East_ @ 5.967948
    17 Dane_ @ 8.301017
    18 South_German_ @ 8.468654
    19 Swede_ @ 8.526320

    20 German-Volga_ @ 9.176450

    Using 2 populations approximation:
    1 50% Dutch_ +50% Orcadian_ @ 2.077172
    I wouldn't call it very atypical. On Gedmatch it is common to not all get your country as no 1 especially for Northwest Europeans. My no 1 country on K13 is North Dutch but Norwegian is at No 3 and my numbers are closer so I don't think you can call these results very atypical.

    Admix Results (sorted):

    # Population Percent
    1 North_Atlantic 51.64
    2 Baltic 25.42
    3 West_Med 10.03
    4 West_Asian 7.24
    5 East_Med 1.8
    6 Red_Sea 1.6
    7 Amerindian 1.32
    8 Siberian 0.71
    9 Oceanian 0.23

    Single Population Sharing:

    # Population (source) Distance
    1 North_Dutch 2.76
    2 Irish 3.04
    3 Norwegian 3.45
    4 Danish 3.65
    5 West_Scottish 3.67
    6 Orcadian 3.69
    7 North_German 5.11
    8 Southeast_English 5.94
    9 Southwest_English 6.16
    10 Swedish 6.26
    11 South_Dutch 9.92
    12 West_German 10.75
    13 North_Swedish 12.59
    14 Austrian 14.89
    15 East_German 15.05
    16 French 15.64
    17 Hungarian 19.19
    18 Southwest_Finnish 20.83
    19 Spanish_Cataluna 23.04
    20 South_Polish 23.81

    Mixed Mode Population Sharing:

    # Primary Population (source) Secondary Population (source) Distance
    1 55.5% Irish + 44.5% Norwegian @ 2.13
    2 52.6% Norwegian + 47.4% West_Scottish @ 2.25
    3 74.9% Irish + 25.1% Swedish @ 2.34
    4 57.3% North_Dutch + 42.7% Irish @ 2.35
    5 86.9% Irish + 13.1% North_Swedish @ 2.4
    6 67.7% North_Dutch + 32.3% West_Scottish @ 2.43
    7 67.9% West_Scottish + 32.1% Swedish @ 2.45
    8 93.6% Irish + 6.4% Finnish @ 2.45
    9 72% Irish + 28% North_German @ 2.5
    10 94.6% Irish + 5.4% East_Finnish @ 2.51
    11 92.3% Irish + 7.7% Southwest_Finnish @ 2.51
    12 94% Irish + 6% La_Brana-1 @ 2.53
    13 96.1% Irish + 3.9% Chuvash @ 2.53
    14 62.7% West_Scottish + 37.3% North_German @ 2.55
    15 95.6% Irish + 4.4% Erzya @ 2.58
    16 94.6% Irish + 5.4% Estonian @ 2.58
    17 61.8% Irish + 38.2% Danish @ 2.6
    18 96.7% Irish + 3.3% Mari @ 2.6
    19 95% Irish + 5% Ukrainian_Belgorod @ 2.61
    20 94.9% Irish + 5.1% Belorussian @ 2.62


    Gedmatch gives Northwestern Europeans all different no 1 pops. I bet there are Norwegians that get Ireland as their no 1 pop as well.

    Anyway if people looked at genetic plots over the years some of these results shouldn't really be a surprise. An oldie but a good one is the Novembre plot if you ignore the out of place Slovakian. West Irish are in fact more distant genetically to most other Europeans because they are geographically more distant. Scandinavians were sailors and the Norse did target Ireland and Scotland so there is nothing really very odd about them being somewhat closer genetically.



    It's been known for years that the Irish don't have any special link with Iberians or Basques and I've posted about it frequently on here and some people got their knickers in a knot about it. I just post what I observe and also what I can link. But all this sort of stuff I've posted a while back. Got some grief from it as well. It's not strange that Irish would be closer to their neighbours than other populations. Logic is always a good thing to make use of.

    This person that Sikeliot posted has very high North Sea so that would pull them closer to Norwegians as well.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Bobby Martnen View Post
    Is this an actual ethnic Irishman, or is it the descendant of English settlers?
    English are usually closer to Belgians, South Dutch etc. Irish and Scots are closer to North Dutch and Scandinavians on Gedmatch.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Stearsolina View Post
    Norse influence in Ireland is significant, all Irish have it this one just more than is usual.

    To add, I would never expect Iberian like input in Ireland, but in Wales yes.
    Wales doesn't have any extra Iberian like input either. If you look at the Irish DNA Atlas they are similar to other British and Irish populations. Also this graphic was released earlier before the Irish DNA Atlas came out from the Irish Traveller study showing the Welsh to be very similar to the Irish and Scots.


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    Trawl through the pre-Viking dna in iron age and bell beakers from Britain to see how it's possible for this.

    Pre-viking age Ireland would be northern with less mid neolithic than England, France, south Netherlands, Belgium or Germany but closer to say Norway, Denmark and north Netherlands.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Graham View Post
    Trawl through the pre-Viking dna in iron age and bell beakers from Britain to see how it's possible for this.

    Pre-viking age Ireland would be northern with less mid neolithic than England, France, south Netherlands, Belgium or Germany but closer to say Norway, Denmark and north Netherlands.
    The British Bell Beakers are very northern shifted and also Rathlin.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Grace O'Malley View Post
    The British Bell Beakers are very northern shifted and also Rathlin.
    The calculators for Iron Age are a bit muddled too and on K15 the NOrthumbrian Anglo Saxon scores closer to the Irish and Scots than to the SOuthern English. Perhaps it isnt the best calculator to use, being a bit old and based off modern populations.

    R1b-U152
    1 South_Dutch 7.22
    2 North_German 8.7
    3 Southwest_English 9.02
    4 Southeast_English 9.3
    5 Irish 9.88

    R1b-U106
    1 Irish 6.01
    2 West_Scottish 6.08
    3 North_German 6.23
    4 Danish 6.36
    5 North_Dutch 6.98

    r1b-L21
    1 Irish 4.3
    2 West_Scottish 5.35
    3 Southeast_English 5.8
    4 North_German
    5 North_Dutch 6.2

    1 Orcadian 3.61
    2 West_Scottish 6.12
    3 Southeast_English 6.61
    4 Southwest_English 6.61
    5 North_Dutch 6.65

    1 North_German 5.32
    2 Danish 7.33
    3 North_Dutch 7.84
    4 South_Dutch 8.03
    5 Southeast_English 8.41

    I1 Anglo Saxon
    1 West_Norwegian 5.46
    2 Norwegian 7.4
    3 Swedish 8.22
    4 Orcadian 9.89
    5 North_Dutch 9.92
    6 Danish 10.32
    7 North_Swedish 10.68
    8 West_Scottish 11.27
    9 Irish 12.25

    10 Southeast_English 13.07
    11 North_German 13.42
    12 Southwest_English 13.97

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    Ran some Bell Beakers and noticed the Med Shift mainly in Italian.

    Italian K36
    11.47 --- Bell Beaker Britain I2a (U5a1a1)
    9.61 --- Iron Age Britain R1b U-152
    7.80 --- Bell Beaker Britain R1b-L21 (H1)
    6.31 --- Iron age Britain r1b u-106
    5.58 --- Modern Ireland
    5.56 --- Iron Age Britain r1b-L21
    4.72 --- Iron Age Britain r1b-L21
    4.12 --- Iron Age Britain r1b-L21
    1.88 --- Bell Beaker Germany
    0.00 --- Iron Age Anglo Saxon England I1-S107
    0.00 --- Bell Beaker Britain r1b-L21 (J1c)
    0.00 --- Bell Beaker Britain r1b-L21 (K1a26)
    0.00 --- Bell Beaker Britain r1b-L21 (H1e1a)
    0.00 --- Bell Beaker Britain r1b-L21 (T2b)
    0.00 --- Bell Beaker Britain r1b-L21 (V)
    0.00 --- BB r1b-L21 (U4b1b2)
    0.00 --- Bell Beaker Britain r1b-L21 (HV0+195)
    0.00 --- Bell Beaker Britain R1a1a
    0.00 --- Bronze age Ireland R1b-L21
    Last edited by Graham; 04-28-2018 at 08:45 AM.

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