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Thread: South Slavs are Illyrians not Albanians

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    Quote Originally Posted by Kamal900 View Post
    Sure, but I was talking about how close they are to them. Not saying that South Slavs have nothing to do with them genetically since they do, but just talking about the degree of it, it's all. Like, as a Serb, you owe half of your ancestry from them and so on the same way that western Jewry owe half of their genome from the middle east, namely the Levant.
    Shqiptars/Albanians first ever arrive to Serbia (their Albania now) in 1043AD. The whole of modern Shqiperia has majority of everything with a Serbian base but Shqiptarized/Albanianized. Albanians owe their EV13 and I2 to Serbo-Illyrians.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Novi Pazar View Post
    Shqiptars/Albanians first ever arrive to Serbia (their Albania now) in 1043AD. The whole of modern Shqiperia has majority of everything with a Serbian base but Shqiptarized/Albanianized. Albanians owe their EV13 and I2 to Serbo-Illyrians.
    Um, the I2 haplogroup among Southern Slavs is of Slavic origins, no?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Kamal900 View Post
    Um, the I2 haplogroup among Southern Slavs is of Slavic origins, no?
    Current I2 is leftover of once great European populace.

    I2 came from Anatolia (Which is confirmed by Sardinians) and settled in Balkans and Italy, then it went to Gaul and Britain and existed there.

    Then Indo-Europeans (Asians) came and replaced I2 populace with R1b and R1a populace, that boomed in between 5th and 10th century A.D.

    So to say that I2 is Slavic is an oxymoronism.

    Truth is that R1a Slavs enslaved I2 populace "Somewhere" doesn't matter where in Europe who then moved to Balkans (where they were previously anyway)

    Only R1a people own a true right on Slavic language and Culture.

    I2 are an extinct Illyrian, Roman people who don't exist anymore like Sardinians for example are the most proper Latin Speakers (yet being I2)

    There isn't more proper Latin than I2a1a Sardinian one, which tells you a lot. They weren't enslaved like us.

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    According to linguistic research, the Albanian language at least hasnt been native to Albania for that long and it may be a language similiar to Thracian.
    69.3% Ukrainian + 30.7% Italian_Jewish @ 2.52

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ljubic View Post
    According to linguistic research, the Albanian language at least hasnt been native to Albania for that long and it may be a language similiar to Thracian.
    Actually most linguistic research holds it to be Illyrian, from more inland variety and north of the jireck line. of course there are opposing views which always seem to make the headlines among Balkan Slavs and you are probably referring to those Austrian scholars. They basically copy pasted kind of Schramm's work and and their work has already been addressed and kind of debunked. Only thing they are right is that it's not native to the South. Since most of these regions were inhabited by Illyrians originally anyway, it is irrelevant in my view.



    On Balance, there are more examples of plausible links between Illyrian names and Albanian words than there are in the case of Thracian (though there are some of both, and some names were common to the two ancient languages). Most of these relate to place-names in the area of central and northern Albania, such as the river Mat (Alb.:mat, river bank) or the town of Ulqin or Ulcinium (Alb: Ujk or Ulk, Wolf) or indeed the early name for the Kosovo area, 'Dardania' (Alb: Dardhe , pear).

    The strongest evidence, however, comes not from the meaning of the proper names (which is always open to doubt) but from their structure. Most Illyrian names are composed of a single unit; many Thracian ones are made up of two unites joined together. Several Thracian place-names end in -para, for example, which is though to mean 'ford' or -diza, which is thought to mean fortress. Thus in the territory of the Bessi, a well known Thracian tribe, we have the town of Bessapara, 'ford' of the Bessi'. The structure here is the same as in many European langiages: thus the 'town of Peter' can be called Peterborough, Petrograd, Petersburg, Pierreville, and so on. But the crucial fact is that this structure is impossible in Albanian, which can only say 'Qytet i Pjetrit', not 'Pjeterqytet'. if 'para' were the Albanian for 'ford', then the place-name would have to be 'Para e Besseve'; this might be reduced in time to something like 'Parabessa', but it could never become 'Bessapara'. And what is at stake here is not some superficial feature of the language which might easily change over time, but a profound structural principle. This is one of the strongest available arguments to show that Albanian cannot have developed out of Thracian.

    Other linguistic arguments are more closely linked to geography. The place-names of the northern Albanian region offer a valuable linguistic testing-ground. We know what many of them were called in Roman times; it should therefore be possible to tell weather their modern Albanian form derives from a continuous Albanian tradition going back to contact with the Romans, or wether it is derived from the Slav form of the name. If the latter, then this might suggest that the Albanians entered this area only after the Slav immigration of the seventh century. The fact that Slavs developed their own forms of the urban names directly from the Latin (Skadar from Latin Scodra, for example, where the Albanian form developed as Shkoder/Shkodra) is not in itself significant; their contact in the urban areas would have been mainly with Latin-speakers anyway. But if, on the other hand, the Slav names for rivers or mountains show that they were borrowed from Albanian form of those names, this would indicate that there were Albanian speakers in the countryside when the Slavs first arrived. The evidence is in fact very mixed: some of the Albanian forms (of both urban and rural names) suggest transmission via Slav, but others - including the towns of Shkodra, Drisht, Lezha, Shkup (Skopje) and perhaps Shtip (Stip, south-east of Skopje) - follow the pattern of continious Albanian development from the Latin. (One common objection to this argument, claiming that 'sc-' in Latin should have turned into 'h-', not 'shk-' in Albanian, rests on a chronological error, and can be disregarded.) There are also some fairly convincing derivations of Slav names for rivers in northern Albania - particularly the Bojana (Alb: Buena) and the Drim (Alb.: Drin) - which suggest that the Slavs must have acquired their names from the Albanian forms.

    Finally, one more common-sensical linguistic and geographical argument should be mentioned: the claim, by the pioneering German Balkanologist Gustav Weigand, that the early Albanians must have lived a long way east to the Adriatic coast, because most of the Albanian words for fish, boats and coastal features are borrowed from other languages. Sterling efforts have been made by Albanian scholars to find authentic fish-words, but the tally, though not insignificant, is still rather poor. However, Weigand's argument could not be very powerful even if it's basic observation were correct (as it may in fact be). A pastoral population might have lived only 50 miles inland in the Albanian mountains without having contact with fishing or sailing: it is not necessary to push its location eastwards all the way to Thrace. Of course Illyrians did once live on the coast, and would presumably have had their own maritime vocabulary. But if Illyrian survived as Albanian, it did so only by means of physical contraction, withdrawal and isolation, which naturally would have taken place in mountain terrain. This is why the purest element of Albanian vocabulary refers to mountains high altitude plants and shepherding: the point is not that the proto-Albanians had never lived any other sort of life, but that the only ones who survived as Albanian-speakers did so precisely because that was the sort of isolated and independent life they led, probably for several centuries. The Illyrians who lived on the coastal plains were Romanized, like the ones on the Dalmatian coast and indeed in most areas of Yugoslavia. By the time the Slavs began arriving in the sixth century, there were only scattered pockets of speakers of the old 'barbarian' languages left anywhere in the Balkans, and all of them were in mountainous regions.
    Some others have suggested also Nish to of been part of the Albanian development from Latin like those others. That have been later adopted by Slavic speakers.



    There are more parts where this author addressed Schramms claim and regarding the whole Bessi tribe and what happened to them.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Andrjh View Post
    Actually most linguistic research holds it to be Illyrian, from more inland variety and north of the jireck line. of course there are opposing views which always seem to make the headlines among Balkan Slavs and you are probably referring to those Austrian scholars. They basically copy pasted kind of Schramm's work and and their work has already been addressed and kind of debunked. Only thing they are right is that it's not native to the South. Since most of these regions were inhabited by Illyrians originally anyway, it is irrelevant in my view.








    Some others have suggested also Nish to of been part of the Albanian development from Latin like those others. That have been later adopted by Slavic speakers.



    There are more parts where this author addressed Schramms claim and regarding the whole Bessi tribe and what happened to them.
    Hi Bosniensis!

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    free Dottore, free Bosniensis

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ülev View Post
    free Dottore, free Bosniensis
    +1

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    Quote Originally Posted by Bosniensis View Post
    Current I2 is leftover of once great European populace.

    I2 came from Anatolia (Which is confirmed by Sardinians) and settled in Balkans and Italy, then it went to Gaul and Britain and existed there.

    Then Indo-Europeans (Asians) came and replaced I2 populace with R1b and R1a populace, that boomed in between 5th and 10th century A.D.

    So to say that I2 is Slavic is an oxymoronism.

    Truth is that R1a Slavs enslaved I2 populace "Somewhere" doesn't matter where in Europe who then moved to Balkans (where they were previously anyway)

    Only R1a people own a true right on Slavic language and Culture.

    I2 are an extinct Illyrian, Roman people who don't exist anymore like Sardinians for example are the most proper Latin Speakers (yet being I2)

    There isn't more proper Latin than I2a1a Sardinian one, which tells you a lot. They weren't enslaved like us.
    R1a arrived peacefully in Europe and intermingled with I haplogroups. Balkan Slavs are dominant I then R1a and E (equally) whilst central and northern Slavs are dominant R1a then I.

    R haplogroups are the original Turkic haplogroups of Eurasia, Bashkirs of Central Asia are approximately 60+ R1B and speak Turk tongue.

    The arbins who carried R1B haplogroups and arrived into Europe roughly 4 thousand years ago conducted wide scale genocide in Western Europe killing off carriers of I and R1a in Western Europe. Haplogroup G also suffered.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dibran View Post
    You literally have an extra chromosome. Yea I prayed to the Clinton statue and magically a fucking list of factual data based on the complete FTDNA database surfaced, at the hands of a reasonable South Slav no less. You fucking moron.

    Bronze Age Dalmatia: J2b2(Most common in Gheg Albanians)

    Neolithic Croatia: E-V13(Most common in Gheg Albanians)

    Bronze Age Serbia: R1b-L23(Most common in Gheg Albanians)



    Medieval Polish Slav: I2a1b-Din(Most common in Southern Slavs and Eastern Slavs)

    Oldest I2a1b-Din - Niemcza_13 (900-1000 AD), I2a1b2-L621+, mtDNA J1c3e1

    Location of Niemcza (to the west of Krosno):

    I am R1b Z2103 and all other albanias are the same or E+J2b group ...the 3 big albanian group...so ..that was with the illyrian slavs and albanian caucasians...

    "Shqiptar i vėrtetė e i mirė ėshtė ay qė vė gjithėnjė e kurėdo kombėrinė pėrpara fesė, nuk ka vėllezėr ata qė ka nė besėn e tij, por ata qė ka nė kombėri tė tij.” – Sami Frashėri"
    "A true and good Albanian is the one who always and everywhere puts the nation before the religion, there are no brothers who are in his faith, but those who are in his nation." - Sami Frashėri "

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