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Thread: Is there less tangible Moorish influence in Portugal than in southern Spain and western Sicily?

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    Default Is there less tangible Moorish influence in Portugal than in southern Spain and western Sicily?

    I keep be being told by Portuguese users on here that many things that are of Moorish origin look very unfamiliar to them, things I know exist in southern Spain, western Sicily.

    Which is odd because Portuguese have the most genetic influence from Moorish settlement out of the three. 11% or so.

    Not that the overall cultures of these places are Moorish but tangible, physically evident things remain and apparently nothing like them exist in Portugal according to users here.


    Nothing resembling couscous is eaten in Portugal? (For Spain, paella might be equivalent)




    Apparently these plates do not exist as a common decoration or item in Portugal? You see them sold in many shops in southern Spain and in Sicily, where ceramic making has been something local craftsmen have done for hundreds of years.





    The same with these rugs but no Portuguese user here says they are sold:





    Apparently you don't find this architectural style in Portugal either (even though such styles literally made it to the southwest US due to Spanish settlement)?



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    Veteran Member Ajeje Brazorf's Avatar
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    Moorish influence is often overestimated.

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    Western Sicily.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ajeje Brazorf View Post
    Moorish influence is often overestimated.

    It may be, but it is present to the extent where in some places you can feel it. You'd surely feel it more in Andalusia or western Sicily than in Apulia or Naples, or Portugal/Greece apparently.

    But the question is why it isn't MORE visible in Portugal considering Portugal has higher Moorish DNA. Why not higher cultural retention?

    In Sicily it is present because the Normans admired Arab culture (basically, they wanted to pick and choose parts of the culture to keep but without the originators of the culture themselves), in Spain they were there 800 years. So why not Portugal?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Sikeliot View Post
    In Sicily it is present because the Normans admired Arab culture
    Yeah, they admired the Muslims so much to deport and exterminate them.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ajeje Brazorf View Post
    Yeah, they admired the Muslims so much to deport and exterminate them.
    They wanted the cultural elements but not the people, aka what Leftists call "cultural appropriation."

    However I would be cautious to believe that any time history says a people were entirely deported or exterminated that it is actually true. The Anglo-Saxons did not kill off all the Britons like history says, the Greeks did not deport every Slav, and the Normans surely didn't kill or deport every Arab (most of whom were Arabized natives to begin with).

    Anyway let's stay on topic. What happened to Moorish cultural elements in Portugal?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Sikeliot View Post
    The Normans surely didn't kill or deport every Arab (most of whom were Arabized natives to begin with).
    They were Berbers and Andalusians, not Arabs.

    Quote Originally Posted by Sikeliot View Post
    Anyway let's stay on topic.
    Ok.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ajeje Brazorf View Post
    They were Berbers and Andalusians, not Arabs.
    Then maybe this explains the genetically westward pull of Trapani then rather than Normans -- the settlement of Andalusian "Arabs" there.

    Anyhow, yes, I am just curious why there is little to show (assuming posters here are telling the truth) for Moorish rule in Portugal.

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    Here we have "Arroz à Valenciana" which is basicaly how we call Paella in our cuisine but I think it's a Spanish importation.

    Couscous is not part of the Portuguese cuisine in any meal or recipe as far as I remember.

    The best you can get is Alheira which is said to have Sephardic origins because it was created in order to disguise Portuguese society/inquisition, in the XVI/XVII century as Jews are forbidden to eat Pork and therefore they created a Sausage with chicken meat instead of pork to fool the ultra-Christian and Anti-Semitic society of that period. (A person not eating Pork at any day would be a good sign of being a New Christian).

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    I think the lack of "Moorish" elements in our gastronomy is due to the huge influence of Seafood and the Atlantic Ocean on our alimentation.

    We are probably one of the European ethnic groups who consumes a higher rate of fish compared to other European populations.

    But who knows if Alentejo or Algarve have some remnants of the Moorish period in that aspect, Alentejo is dry and it's a very warm region, some plates might resemble North African or Middle Eastern ones, it's also a very unhabitated area and in my experience a very unpleasent (the only exception is the coast area, Sines, Odemira and so on) region to live, in the Summer in Inner Alentejo you have to take precautions if you don't want to get some Skin/Sun related disease or even to die from lack of water in your body.

    As they also have a past of poverty, a culture of agriculture and dependency on Plantation Crops or First or First/Second Sector Economy (Agriculture or Industry) you can find a lot of recipes with bread, soaps and vegetables. They used to do that in order to disguise hunger (specialy in the Estado Novo period).







    Algarve is Algarve you can find everything, it's a region with an economy very focused on Tourism so you can find Business men and employees working in the hotels, Bars and restaurants from all over the country, the inner part (in the Monchique Mountains) is somewhat similar to Alentejo. But I would dare to say it's a Fishy region and one of the most Fishy in the country (the Western part of the country is also that way, Nazaré, Peniche.....).

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