Serbians are mostly Whiter than Iberians, Western Asians and North Caucasians.

[Damião de Góis]

This description clearly corresponds to #1-6 of the Martin scale which Supercomputer considered dark for his map. Supercomputer considered light eyes around Martin #8/9-16 excluding dark green and hazel. Thus there is an inconsistency. Coon suggests that other anthropologists like Hainz included dark greenish/hazel eyes with dark eyes unlike Hulse.





Sainz grouped pure brown and hazel together unlike Tamagnini. Sainz called them grey-brown:


Portuguese may thus still overall have darker eyes than Spaniards, but I‘m not 100% sure. Both have less pure light overall then Serbs where it typically reaches around 20%.

Where is the inconsistency in Supercomputer's map if he is only counting light eyes from both Tamagnini and Hoyos Sanz?

[Melkiirs]

You are clearly wrong. I never claimed that Portuguese and Serbs are identical, did I? All I said was there isn’t much of a difference between Portuguese and Serbian people in terms of pigmentation. In both populations over 70% have dark and dark-mixed eyes. This would rank both of them among the darkest-eyed in Europe. Depending on studies Spaniards might be lighter or darker-eyed than Portuguese. The reason why Serbs might have slightly less pure dark eyes as you claimed, might be due to the fact that Serbia as a whole lies slightly more north in latitude than Portugal. Nevertheless, the Portuguese are still distinct from the MENA people as they’re more distinct. In the GWAS study of 2012 in the pigmentation of European populations in four countries, Ireland, Italy, Poland and Portugal. We find that the Portuguese are as a whole lighter-haired than the Italians and about as light-skinned as the Poles. To remind you, the Poles are much more “Slavic-looking” than the Serbian people. This destroys your assumption of the Portuguese being “close” to MENA. They are not!

I‘m just discussing eye color and the Roman students were found slightly lighter eyed than the Portuense students with the 2012 GWAS study you reference.

~20% pure light eyes is not average for Southern Europe but rather on the high end. Serbians are lighter eyed than most Iberians and Italians. The very darkest eyed Europeans are ~10% or less pure light. Portuguese and Southern Italians (Davenport & Love found about 11% among American WWI veterans with Southern Italian grandparents) fall into this category. Tamagnini found 77.74% pure brown eyes among his Portuguese adult series which is near the 83% pure brown Coon mentions regarding Lebanese. The lighter eyed MENAs and darkest eyed Southern Europeans can overlap with pure brown eyes.

[RogueState]

On average, indeed, Serbs are lighter than Iberians - note that there is nothing wrong to be "swarthier"; it's just a phenotypical fact

[Melkiirs]

Where is the inconsistency in Supercomputer's map if he is only counting light eyes from both Tamagnini and Hoyos Sanz?

Supercomputer has been reflecting on this long after that account and even after my last 2021 account was banned:

I still think the 77% dark includes Hazel.

He kept his map as is on the assumption that dark green and hazel was counted in Tamagnini’s dark eyes because it matches with ToeKneeHwin and was logical in the context of being similar to Spain by Hoyos Sainz.

The inconsistency is that dark eyes for Tamagnini did not include hazel or dark greenish but only mixtures of brown shades based on the definition I saved. Thus ~22% light eyes for Portugal included dark greenish or other hazel shades contrary to what the map says. Hoyos Sainz included so called grey-brown eyes as dark eyes as I showed but there is no explicit indication of this for Portugal with Tamagnini.

[Damião de Góis]

Supercomputer has been reflecting on this long after that account and even after my last 2021 account was banned:


He kept his map as is on the assumption that dark green and hazel was counted in Tamagnini’s dark eyes because it matches with ToeKneeHwin and was logical in the context of being similar to Spain by Hoyos Sainz.

The inconsistency is that dark eyes for Tamagnini did not include hazel or dark greenish but only mixtures of brown shades based on the definition I saved. Thus ~22% light eyes for Portugal included dark greenish or other hazel shades contrary to what the map says. Hoyos Sainz included so called grey-brown eyes as dark eyes as I showed but there is no explicit indication of this for Portugal with Tamagnini.

The descriptions for categories 1 and 2 on both studies match, and i was just checking the Hoyos Sanz study and it has no reference of the Martin scale, it just has descriptions of what the categories mean.

It's blue for one and light mixed for the other one on both studies, it is these two categories that supercomputer added and put in his map.

Either way, i find it funny that you are worried with shades of brown from two populations from across the globe that have nothing to do with you. To the point that you decided to consider one of these populations MENA.

Are you autistic?

[Sorab12]

Lol. Slovaks and Ruthenians are much lighter than Serbs.

I was dead serious when i said that Slovak and Ruthenians are on level with since i live in north of Serbia .On the other hand Croatian Slavicist Vatroslav Jagić wrote "
I would be sorry for Serbian type to disappear because its purer more Slavic than our Croatian ."
If you were to mix these Serbs from SE Serbia with local Slovaks and Ruthenians and group them together nobody could tell them apart.

[Avicenna]

I‘m just discussing eye color and the Roman students were found slightly lighter eyed than the Portuense students with the 2012 GWAS study you reference.

~20% pure light eyes is not average for Southern Europe but rather on the high end. Serbians are lighter eyed than most Iberians and Italians. The very darkest eyed Europeans are ~10% or less pure light. Portuguese and Southern Italians (Davenport & Love found about 11% among American WWI veterans with Southern Italian grandparents) fall into this category. Tamagnini found 77.74% pure brown eyes among his Portuguese adult series which is near the 83% pure brown Coon mentions regarding Lebanese. The lighter eyed MENAs and darkest eyed Southern Europeans can overlap with pure brown eyes.

When you mention pure brown eyes, that's not including dark hazel/ dark mixed eyes/ brown with small tints of green right?

[Melkiirs]

When you mention pure brown eyes, that's not including dark hazel/ dark mixed eyes/ brown with small tints of green right?

If you interpret the Tamagnini definition of dark eyes literally, yes. I may be taking it too literally. At a moderate distance of observation dark mixed and pure brown eyes can be almost indistinguishable. Virchow counted eyes that look homogeneously dark at a standard distance to be pure dark even if they had light element close up.

Evenly mixed eyes could not be confused for pure brown at a moderate distance and are clearly mixed. These were definitely not counted with dark eyes.

[Scarface F]

no comment

[Avicenna]

If you interpret the Tamagnini definition of dark eyes literally, yes. I may be taking it too literally. At a moderate distance of observation dark mixed and pure brown eyes can be almost indistinguishable. Virchow counted eyes that look homogeneously dark at a standard distance to be pure dark even if they had light element close up.

Evenly mixed eyes could not be confused for pure brown at a moderate distance and are clearly mixed. These were definitely not counted with dark eyes.

How would they observe the iris from up close or at a considerable distance? For instance, is shining a certain amount of light directly at the iris a part of their methodology? Because as we are all aware, lighting can make a considerable amount of impact on how we perceive certain eye colours?