What percentage of Spaniards and Italians people pass as typical white Americans?

[Gaska]

Its unlikely the steppe in modern Europeans was Yamnaya.

Unlikely no, simply impossible, because Yamnaya per se is not the source but the sink of R1b. Harvard has been ridiculous for 5 years linking Yamnaya culture to R1b-L51 / P312 and there are still people who think otherwise. Even anthropologically the riders of the Yamnaya culture were very different - Uraloids, dolichocephals and swarthy, nothing to do with the brachycephalic P312 of the BB culture.

Sredni Stog? At the moment their uniparental markers do not coincide with those of Western Europe, when scientists present convincing evidence then we can believe them, meanwhile the theory of steppe invasions are only fairy tales.

[Synapsid]

Unlikely no, simply impossible, because Yamnaya per se is not the source but the sink of R1b. Harvard has been ridiculous for 5 years linking Yamnaya culture to R1b-L51 / P312 and there are still people who think otherwise. Even anthropologically the riders of the Yamnaya culture were very different - Uraloids, dolichocephals and swarthy, nothing to do with the brachycephalic P312 of the BB culture.

Sredni Stog? At the moment their uniparental markers do not coincide with those of Western Europe, when scientists present convincing evidence then we can believe them, meanwhile the theory of steppe invasions are only fairy tales.

Stredny stog Y-DNA is R1a-Z93, which is found in Andranovo/shintashta and we know Indo-Iranians are decedents of the varies European off-shoots of the Corded ware culture. Also Stredny stog II non-EEF ancestry is directly related to the Khavalysk culture, which had no EEF and was in the core regions of the steppe. Khavalysk had R1b, so there might be a stredny stog sample undiscovered that had bell beaker Y-DNA. Unlike Yamnaya,SS II was lactose persistent, like most Northern Europeans (80+)

[Token]

Yes. Yamnya is EHG+CHG+ Futher CHG. Too West Asian shifted. Also Stregny II has some Narva WHG and Farmer in it, so its closer to Europeans.

Yamnaya has around 10% farmer too.

[Synapsid]

Yamnaya has around 10% farmer too.

but not as high as SS II (20%). SS II is also more WHG than Yamnaya. The question for me is, where the EHG in SS local or Samara_HG derived. SS profile seem to be Khavalysk + local WHG-rich EEF. But there are aspect of SS EHG ancestry that related it to Deriivka, hunter gatherers such as having Y-DNA R1a and mtDNA U5a2a

[Gaska]

but not as high as SS II (20%). SS II is also more WHG than Yamnaya. The question for me is, where the EHG in SS local or Samara_HG derived. SS profile seem to be Khavalysk + local WHG-rich EEF. But there are aspect of SS EHG ancestry that related it to Deriivka, hunter gatherers such as having Y-DNA R1a and mtDNA U5a2a

EHG also has a small percentage of WHG. Many mitochondrial lineages of steppe cultures are older in the Balkans and in the Baltic countries. In the same way that you have R1b-P297 in the Narva culture (70% WHG 30% EHG) you have Mit Hap U5a2a in the Balkans, then it is probable that two-way migrations occur (E-W, W-E)

U5a2a- Serbia, Padina, Mesolíthic-I5241-9.245 BC/Padina, Iron Gates-I5237-7.850 BC/ Vlasac, Iron Gates-I5772-6.500 BC/ Vlasac-I4873-5.922 BC
U5a2a-Dereivka, Mesolíthic-I5876-6.871 BC/Volniensky-I5872-5.432 BC

It may be that SS descends from Dereivka, but the origin of some of his female markers is not in the steppes but in the Balkans. That is why it has a percentage of WHG and EEF. R1a is another story
R1b in Khvalynsk has nothing to do with western R1b, they are totally different markers.

[Zeno]

Let's try again. These are the so called light Spaniards.





Your people are as white as Italians. It's pretty embarrassing to see your kind in denial, but I guess I can't blame your people for wanting to be white, since your kind is pretty close to the cut off point for white/nonwhite. It's actually quite pointless to even attempt to reason with your kind, most white Americans are actually descended from the British and just like us they see themselves as the epitome of everything positive and set themselves as the standard for whiteness.

These aren't the lightest Spaniards at all lol.

[Zeno]

Whiteness is based upon a genetic reality. That which is considered white in this continent is a manifestation of phenotype. Phenotype is a manifestation of genetics. This idea that if you don't adhere to a particular phenotype (predominately based on Northern European phenotype) no matter how European you maybe, then you're not "white". That's why Germanics and Slavs generally all fit into whiteness in America. Because they usually have similar characteristics in their phenotype. A Scandinavian person is a lot closer to me than a Spaniard.

When the first Americans used it they weren't speaking of all Europeans, they were speaking specifically of Anglos. Look at Benjamin Franklin's letters. He directly equates "white" with "Anglo" and lumps Irish, Italians, Spaniards, and non-Anglo Germanics under "swarthy" and says they are non-white. Then eventually Germanics were considered white. Then Irish. Then Southern Europeans. Although fuck, some people still debate if your people are white, a lot of people in America don't see your people as white, which is indicative of the historical lag.

Remember the American understanding of whiteness by society at large, is the concept of naming a combination of genes that express/manifest themselves in people through phenotype or traits. Meaning most Southern Europeans aren't white, but they are just European. Whiteness or being white is a concept in American society with certain parameters that many of their former heirs shared.



Just because few Spaniards have light hair or blue eyes does not mean they are genetically/physically similar to Northern Europeans with the same features. And you are free to post blonde Spaniards all day, it just won't change anyone's perception of whiteness. Seems strange that your people would embed the principle of divinity up on human forms with a phenotype other than their own.

You're talking about an era up until the 1900s. For more than 100 years now southern Europeans have been considered socially and racially white.

[noseynobody]

White American women dye their hair as you can see by the omni-present dark regrowth. If you thinik Kim Basinger or Jennifer Lawrence are naturally blonde, your IQ must be at chimp level. actually chimps are smart, so even below that. also White Americans of anglo-irish background tend to tan fairly well. you see anglo-irish in their original countries and you think these people could never get a proper tan. then you go to places like Florida, Texas, California and you see they can actually tan rather good.

Of all the examples you could have chosen you went with the two women who really are natural blondes! Lawrence just dyes her hair different shades of blonde, and in her most famous role and Oscar winning role she plays a brunette, so that throws people off.

[Daven]

White Americans are too diverse.

[JamesBond007]

White American originally meant WASP but the WASP definition was broader than in England. In England Anglo-Saxon technically means the English and perhaps lowland Scots too but in America -- English, Scots and Dutch or northwest Europeans were the 'white people'. In Britain Scots are seen as 'white' but not the Irish. The Irish were not considered 'white' in America either. I guess I look Scottish but have an 'Irish' hiberno-norman name.

However, 'white' in todays America is pretty meaningless such as almost anyone can be considered 'white'.

Capitalism is global in scope and it is not in Victorian imperial racial terms nowadays so capitalism has made almost every featherless biped that is not 'black' a 'white man' because it is advantageous for neo-liberal capitalism.