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Thread: Bela Kun was not Jewish

  1. #21
    Omertŕ oszkar07's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Longbowman View Post
    All my life I thought Bela Kun (born Bela Kohn) was a Jew, because people always said he was. Indeed, the joke goes that the Jewish heads of the Hungarian Soviet Republic (c.1919) had Sandor Garbai, a non-Jew, as head of state, so they could have someone to sign death warrants on the Sabbath. But Kun, foreign minister and power-behind-the-throne of the brutal Hungarian communist regime, was not in fact Jewish. His dad was born Jewish, but his mother was a Protestant and he didn't even have connections to a wishy-washy branch of Judaism like reform Judaism, or, seemingly, many, if any, cultural ties to Jewishness. By halakha (traditional Jewish law), in this case not only Orthodox, but also Masorti, Conservative and Reform halakha, he was not Jewish, by his own identification he probably wasn't Jewish, by genetics, he was only as Jewish as he was Magyar.

    Just a PSA really.
    If his real father was "born Jewish" then if Bela takes DNA test he is probably going to have significant Jewish clustering.

    How then can you deny his Jewishness, and why do you wanna deny it, the Nazi's would send him based on his Jewishness.
    Im sure there plenty examples in modern times of half Jews that consider themselves Jews and are considered Jew's.

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    Quote Originally Posted by oszkar07 View Post
    the Nazi's would send him based on his Jewishness. .
    No, actually, half jews were rarely sent to camps and remained citizens of the Reich.

  3. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by oszkar07 View Post
    If his real father was "born Jewish" then if Bela takes DNA test he is probably going to have significant Jewish clustering.

    How then can you deny his Jewishness, and why do you wanna deny it, the Nazi's would send him based on his Jewishness.
    Im sure there plenty examples in modern times of half Jews that consider themselves Jews and are considered Jew's.
    He wouldn't cluster with Jews, he'd probably cluster with South Slavs.

    The nazis' opinion on who is a Jew is a) not what you think and b) not authoritative. Again, even the nazis could tell the difference between Jew, German, and mischling. Again, also, what they thought has no bearing on reality (but their definition wasn't as ridiculous as that of some people here). Imagine having a sillier view on 'who is a Jew' than Adolf Hitler.

    There are examples of Jews with a Jewish mother only or converts who are zera yisra'el, and Reform Jews will accept patrilineals if they grow up Jewish, but it's irrelevant because Kun did not identify as Jewish anyway and he wasn't brought up Jewish. No mainstream Jewish group would accept him.

    There are a handful of idiots of the 'I'm a PoC because I'm 1/32 Cherokee' persuasion who take the snowflake approach that anyone can be anything they identify as but these people's opinions do not matter and, again, Kun did not identify as Jewish.

    I don't see how you can argue against my point.
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    You are falsifying history with this thread. Every Hungarian historian knows that Kun Béla was of Jewish origin, but nonpracticing. Both his parents converted to Calvinism, as with many Jews in Hungary in the 19th century, who converted to Christianity for better assimilation into society and more chances of high positions. Both his parents had typical Jewish names, Kohn Samu and Golberger Róza. Also his physical aspect did wear the typical Jewish features, which were always standing out from regular Hungarians. He is rightfully considered one of the most abominable figures in Hungarian history, a traitor beyond any measures.


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    Lol

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    Quote Originally Posted by Longbowman View Post
    He wouldn't cluster with Jews, he'd probably cluster with South Slavs.

    The nazis' opinion on who is a Jew is a) not what you think and b) not authoritative. Again, even the nazis could tell the difference between Jew, German, and mischling. Again, also, what they thought has no bearing on reality (but their definition wasn't as ridiculous as that of some people here). Imagine having a sillier view on 'who is a Jew' than Adolf Hitler.

    There are examples of Jews with a Jewish mother only or converts who are zera yisra'el, and Reform Jews will accept patrilineals if they grow up Jewish, but it's irrelevant because Kun did not identify as Jewish anyway and he wasn't brought up Jewish. No mainstream Jewish group would accept him.

    There are a handful of idiots of the 'I'm a PoC because I'm 1/32 Cherokee' persuasion who take the snowflake approach that anyone can be anything they identify as but these people's opinions do not matter and, again, Kun did not identify as Jewish.

    I don't see how you can argue against my point.
    He wasn't Jewish in a religious sense, but he was half Ashkenazi ethnically.

    If someone has two parents of different ethnicities, they belong to both ethnic groups.

    Just like, no matter how much I want to be, I will never be a full Colonial Old Stock American, I'm only quarter-caste, and I have to learn to accept that.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Longbowman View Post
    All my life I thought Bela Kun (born Bela Kohn) was a Jew, because people always said he was. Indeed, the joke goes that the Jewish heads of the Hungarian Soviet Republic (c.1919) had Sandor Garbai, a non-Jew, as head of state, so they could have someone to sign death warrants on the Sabbath. But Kun, foreign minister and power-behind-the-throne of the brutal Hungarian communist regime, was not in fact Jewish. His dad was born Jewish, but his mother was a Protestant and he didn't even have connections to a wishy-washy branch of Judaism like reform Judaism, or, seemingly, many, if any, cultural ties to Jewishness. By halakha (traditional Jewish law), in this case not only Orthodox, but also Masorti, Conservative and Reform halakha, he was not Jewish, by his own identification he probably wasn't Jewish, by genetics, he was only as Jewish as he was Magyar.

    Just a PSA really.
    How did you come to the conclusion that someone with the surname Goldberger (Róza Kun née Goldberger was Kun's mother) would be an ethnic Magyar?
    His mother converted from Judaism to Protestantism.

  8. #28
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    You know bad people are not necessary jewish?

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