Turks (Turkey) vs Central Asians: who's more Turkic?

[Böri]

I already told you, the Oghuz referred to in letters and correspondences is not necessarily about Aral/Caspian Oghuz. Oghuz is a very common denomination in early Turkic medieval history. Oghuz Turks of western Kazakhstan worked together with Rus to topple down Khazars. This is a historical fact.



If you are Türks why don't you speak Türk language? Are there records of language shift? Türk language is dead and was replaced by Oghuz language as evident in Tonyukuk inscriptions. Türks were slaughtered in Mongolia. Closest modern real Oghuz language is Tuvan (minus Mongolisms), but it is a Oghuz derivative not Türk one. Differences are very few but linguists recognize them, as they recognize a language shift.

You need to provide sources that allegedly claim Turugesh suddenly started to call themselves Oghuz.

Türk is in fact an exoethnonym applied by Arabs, Persians and Greeks to the rest of Turkic speaking groups, who were not necessarily Türks. Eventually Turkic speaking groups adopted name Turk.

Yes Oğuz and Pechenegs rebelled to take down the Judaicized Khazar ruling class. Alliance was sealed with Svyatolslav (and later Vlodimir) of Rus'. What has this to do with subject and my claim?
Khazars were Turkic? Yes.
Did Oğuz Turks lived inside Khazar khaganate? Yes.

Khazar khaganate is represented in Turkish Republic's presidential seal, with one of the 16 stars representing Turkic Khazars

We have not been ruled by Mongols. Descent of Genghis Khan never ruled us (they even did rule Rus', China and Iran). That's the point.
People ruled by Mongols (and later also by Russians) can't be more Turkic or not even equally Turkic as us who have always been part of Turkic states and princeps.

[Yaglakar]

Yes Oğuz and Pechenegs rebelled to take down the Judaicized Khazar ruling class. Alliance was sealed with Svyatolslav (and later Vlodimir) of Rus'. What has this to do with subject and my claim?
Khazars were Turkic? Yes.
Did Oğuz Turks lived inside Khazar khaganate? Yes.

Khazar khaganate is represented in Turkish Republic's presidential seal, with one of the 16 stars representing Turkic Khazars

We have not been ruled by Mongols. Descent of Genghis Khan never ruled us (they even did rule Rus', China and Iran). That's the point.
People ruled by Mongols (and later also by Russians) can't be more Turkic or not even equally Turkic as us who have always been part of Turkic states and princeps.

Anatolian Turks are the most Turkic of all Turkics. Are you happy now, Bori?

[Messier 67]

Bring this topic up in Turkey and you'll get beat up, but the facts are the citizens of Turkey are barely Turks, mostly Anatolians. Central Asians are for more Turkish than Turks. Look at Azerbaijan, they speak a Turkic language and some mislabel them Turkish. They are mostly Middle Eastern. It is controversial to call Turks, "Byzantine converts to Islam", which is what most of them are.

The President of Turkey, a Georgian Muslim, called a "Turk".

[Böri]

Bring this topic up in Turkey and you'll get beat up, but the facts are the citizens of Turkey are barely Turks, mostly Anatolians. Central Asians are for more Turkish than Turks. Look at Azerbaijan, they speak a Turkic language and some mislabel them Turkish. They are mostly Middle Eastern. It is controversial to call Turks, "Byzantine converts to Islam", which is what most of them are.

The President of Turkey, a Georgian Muslim, called a "Turk".

What the fuck you even know to even make a comment like this? Who are you?
And Stalin was also Georgian, that means Russian Slavs are Georgian Kartvelian converts? Erdoğan never talked Georgian publicly nor he said he is Georgian. Beside this, he is not a dynastic ruler, he is just an elected president who plays the pious Muslim and gets the vote of the conservative people. A president is a state worker, just that.
Erdoğan is not the leader of the Turkish nation, he is like the governor of Istanbul with some more powers.

[Vlatko Vukovic]

In case you didn’t know in Turkey there are communities of Georgians, Muslim Armenians, Pomaks (Muslim Bulgarians) and distinct from Turks.
Historical state continuity... Turks are more Turkic than any Central Asians since those lived under Mongols and Russians unlike Turks...

It depends from which view you think what is more important. I think that more important is genetics and ancestry about percentage of Kyryz for example, in comparison to Turks from Turkey.

[Böri]

It depends from which view you think what is more important. I think that more important is genetics and ancestry about percentage of Kyryz for example, in comparison to Turks from Turkey.

Real Kyrgyz from Yenisei were reddish hair and green eyes. Chinese sources are clear.
Starting from 10th century they entered Mongol domination and ended up looking more East Asian.
They were mixed with Mongols and ruled by them. That never happened for Turks.

[Armenian Bishop]

Bring this topic up in Turkey and you'll get beat up, but the facts are the citizens of Turkey are barely Turks, mostly Anatolians. Central Asians are for more Turkish than Turks. Look at Azerbaijan, they speak a Turkic language and some mislabel them Turkish. They are mostly Middle Eastern. It is controversial to call Turks, "Byzantine converts to Islam", which is what most of them are.

The President of Turkey, a Georgian Muslim, called a "Turk".

I guess you don't have to go to Turkey to get beat up for insulting Turkishness, the Internet Playground provides that opportunity.

What the fuck you even know to even make a comment like this? Who are you?
And Stalin was also Georgian, that means Russian Slavs are Georgian Kartvelian converts? Erdoğan never talked Georgian publicly nor he said he is Georgian. Beside this, he is not a dynastic ruler, he is just an elected president who plays the pious Muslim and gets the vote of the conservative people. A president is a state worker, just that.
Erdoğan is not the leader of the Turkish nation, he is like the governor of Istanbul with some more powers.

Yip! I was right.

[Vlatko Vukovic]

Real Kyrgyz from Yenisei were reddish hair and green eyes. Chinese sources are clear.
Starting from 10th century they entered Mongol domination and ended up looking more East Asian.
They were mixed with Mongols and ruled by them. That never happened for Turks.

Yes and Cumans were blond according to Russian sources........ I don't take all sources as clear.

[Shaco]

The global perception and prejudice wouldn't discuss this and would directly say: Central Asians. Central Asians (in their current form) are even considered as forerunners of Turks.
However, that's all wrong.

Turks are actually more Turkic than Central Asian Turkic-speaking nations.
The reason for this that's simple above all.
Turks were always ruled by Turkic dynasties over history: The Göktürks, the Khazars, the Seljuks (who came from west Kazakhstan), the Anatolian Turcoman Lords (beyliks) and the Ottomans who were one of those beyliks.
Central Asians weren't always ruled by Turks. Actually after the 13th century, they got Mongolic Genghis Khan rulers ruling over them.

Central Asia is often considered as original homeland of Turks, which is also wrong. Originally central Asia was home to neolitic farmers from India, who later were assimilated linguistically by Iranian invaders. Then Turks came cleansed the Iranic ruling classes.

Proto-Turks were south Siberian semi-nomadic herders and cattle breeders known for their expertise in working iron, blacksmith.

The perceived patronage of Central Asians in our identity is overrated. They aren't more or not even equally Turkic as us.

You do realize that Turks in Anatolia are nothing but a mix of Armenians, Iranians and Greeks? 25% of your population is Iranic due to native kurdish population, Armenians have inhabited Anatolia for a long time (longer than Turkic languages have existed) and western turkey was inhabited by Greeks. Turks are just another branch of West Asians/middle easterns speaking an altaic language which is clearly related to other East Asian languages like Japanese and Korean. The turks who look Europid are simply decendants of ancient Greeks and modern balkanoid slaves which the Ottomans mass imported into mainland Anatolia. Stop feeding yourself lies. African Americans living in the US aren't Anglo saxons just because they speak English. They are ethnically Africans. Turks are related to the people around them, Armenians, Iranians and southern Greeks. Haplogroups like R1b, J2 and G are all heavily concentrated in these 3 countries. Phenotype wise, they all overlap with one another.

[Bornoz]

You do realize that Turks in Anatolia are nothing but a mix of Armenians, Iranians and Greeks? 25% of your population is Iranic due to native kurdish population, Armenians have inhabited Anatolia for a long time (longer than Turkic languages have existed) and western turkey was inhabited by Greeks. Turks are just another branch of West Asians/middle easterns speaking an altaic language which is clearly related to other East Asian languages like Japanese and Korean. The turks who look Europid are simply decendants of ancient Greeks and modern balkanoid slaves which the Ottomans mass imported into mainland Anatolia. Stop feeding yourself lies. African Americans living in the US aren't Anglo saxons just because they speak English. They are ethnically Africans. Turks are related to the people around them, Armenians, Iranians and southern Greeks. Haplogroups like R1b, J2 and G are all heavily concentrated in these 3 countries. Phenotype wise, they all overlap with one another.

Balkan Slaves

You may not know that friend but as about 15-20% of Turkey's population is Balkan descent (Mostly Balkan Turks, lesser Bosnians, Albanians etc.) and you can be sure about that none of their ancestors were slaves. A slave from 400 years ago doesn't effect her grandchildren's genotype or phenotype in 21th century.

Btw I am not defending Böri in here. I also don't think that people in here are so ''Turkic'' It is something linguistic actually.

Just wait for him to come and blame me for being Kurdish..