English Anglo-Saxon vs Celtic DNA

[Dacul]

Saxons are not Germanic, they are very close to the French people on autosomal testing.
They are Celto-Germanic people.
Original Saxons should have been even more Keltic-shifted.
In NW Germany were Bell Beaker Kelts mixed to Hallstat Kelts and in South Germany, more Hallstat Kelts.
Hallstat Nordid is Hallstat Kelts race, not Germanic race.
Lol, Hallstat is the center of the Hallstat Kelts culture.
AngloSaxon race is a Keltic race, not a Germanic one.
AngloSaxon race is between Hallstat Nordid and Keltic Nordid races.
Some mix of these 2 races of Keltic people.

[Bellbeaking]

Around 30% Germanic, the rest is mostly Celtic.

https://www.nature.com/articles/ncomms10408#s1
British population history has been shaped by a series of immigrations, including the early Anglo-Saxon migrations after 400 CE. It remains an open question how these events affected the genetic composition of the current British population. Here, we present whole-genome sequences from 10 individuals excavated close to Cambridge in the East of England, ranging from the late Iron Age to the middle Anglo-Saxon period. By analysing shared rare variants with hundreds of modern samples from Britain and Europe, we estimate that on average the contemporary East English population derives 38% of its ancestry from Anglo-Saxon migrations. We gain further insight with a new method, rarecoal, which infers population history and identifies fine-scale genetic ancestry from rare variants. Using rarecoal we find that the Anglo-Saxon samples are closely related to modern Dutch and Danish populations, while the Iron Age samples share ancestors with multiple Northern European populations including Britain.

But the Dutch Bell beakers (majority of UK ancestry) where not celtic where they?

[Creoda]

But the Dutch Bell beakers (majority of UK ancestry) where not celtic where they?

Culturally 'Celtic' since the Iron Age at least, genetically closer to Germanics than Continental Celts.

[Dna8]

in the popular consciousness it seems to be a tired, old Anglo/Saxon/Celtic model

[Norb]

30% YDNA is Germanic overall in England? Do you have any data for solely Anglo-Saxon YDNA in England?

[Grace O'Malley]

I'm very close to the Anglo-Saxons on G25 despite being a Celt. Looking at genetics the Insular Celts appear to have been quite close to populations like Anglo-Saxons, Vikings, Germanics anyway. These are the populations I'm closest to and I've left the Anglo-Saxon group in there and a couple of the single Anglo-Saxons in there to show this. My no 1 closest is actually to an Anglo-Saxon. It's all very odd. Moderns bolded and ancients in blue.

England_Anglo-Saxon HS2-I0159 1.81
Icelandic_Averaged Averaged 1.874
Irish_Averaged Averaged 1.876
England_Anglo-Saxon_Averaged Averaged 1.93
Scottish_Averaged Averaged 1.964
Welsh_Averaged Averaged 1.977
Orcadian_Averaged Averaged 1.98
England_Roman_Averaged Averaged 2.146
English_Averaged Averaged 2.206
Hungary_Medieval_Szolad SZ7 CE:505 2.211
Beaker_Mittelelbe-Saale_Averaged Averaged 2.33
Norwegian_Averaged Averaged 2.345
England_Anglo-Saxon NO3423 CE:780 2.356
Scotland_LBA_Averaged Averaged 2.362
English_Cornwall_Averaged Averaged 2.454
Dutch_Averaged Averaged 2.459
Shetlandic_Averaged Averaged 2.494
England_IA_Averaged Averaged 2.553
Swedish_Averaged Averaged 2.659
Germany_Medieval_Averaged Averaged 3.049
Unetice_Averaged Averaged 3.078
Beaker_Britain_Averaged Averaged 3.117
Netherlands_BA_Averaged Averaged 3.271
German_Averaged Averaged 3.333
Sweden_Viking_Age_Averaged Averaged 3.797
Belgian_Averaged Averaged 4.07

[Norb]

I'm very close to the Anglo-Saxons on G25 despite being a Celt. Looking at genetics the Insular Celts appear to have been quite close to populations like Anglo-Saxons, Vikings, Germanics anyway. These are the populations I'm closest to and I've left the Anglo-Saxon group in there and a couple of the single Anglo-Saxons in there to show this. My no 1 closest is actually to an Anglo-Saxon. It's all very odd. Moderns bolded and ancients in blue.

England_Anglo-Saxon HS2-I0159 1.81
Icelandic_Averaged Averaged 1.874
Irish_Averaged Averaged 1.876
England_Anglo-Saxon_Averaged Averaged 1.93
Scottish_Averaged Averaged 1.964
Welsh_Averaged Averaged 1.977
Orcadian_Averaged Averaged 1.98
England_Roman_Averaged Averaged 2.146
English_Averaged Averaged 2.206
Hungary_Medieval_Szolad SZ7 CE:505 2.211
Beaker_Mittelelbe-Saale_Averaged Averaged 2.33
Norwegian_Averaged Averaged 2.345
England_Anglo-Saxon NO3423 CE:780 2.356
Scotland_LBA_Averaged Averaged 2.362
English_Cornwall_Averaged Averaged 2.454
Dutch_Averaged Averaged 2.459
Shetlandic_Averaged Averaged 2.494
England_IA_Averaged Averaged 2.553
Swedish_Averaged Averaged 2.659
Germany_Medieval_Averaged Averaged 3.049
Unetice_Averaged Averaged 3.078
Beaker_Britain_Averaged Averaged 3.117
Netherlands_BA_Averaged Averaged 3.271
German_Averaged Averaged 3.333
Sweden_Viking_Age_Averaged Averaged 3.797
Belgian_Averaged Averaged 4.07

how accurate is this calc?

[Grace O'Malley]

Here are the modern populations that are closest to the Anglo-Saxons using G25

1 England_Anglo-Saxon:Average Icelandic_Averaged Averaged 1.357
2 England_Anglo-Saxon:Average Norwegian_Averaged Averaged 1.447
6 England_Anglo-Saxon:Average Dutch_Averaged Averaged 1.828
9 England_Anglo-Saxon:Average Irish_Averaged Averaged 1.836
10 England_Anglo-Saxon:Average Welsh_Averaged Averaged 1.842
11 England_Anglo-Saxon:Average Scottish_Averaged Averaged 1.853
22 England_Anglo-Saxon:Average Orcadian_Averaged Averaged 2.01
23 England_Anglo-Saxon:Average Shetlandic_Averaged Averaged 2.018
32 England_Anglo-Saxon:Average Swedish_Averaged Averaged 2.073
35 England_Anglo-Saxon:Average English_Averaged Averaged 2.112
66 England_Anglo-Saxon:Average English_Cornwall_Averaged Averaged 2.394
209 England_Anglo-Saxon:Average German_Averaged Averaged 3.113
447 England_Anglo-Saxon:Average Belgian_Averaged Averaged 4.055
484 England_Anglo-Saxon:Average German_East_Averaged Averaged 4.188
552 England_Anglo-Saxon:Average Czech_Averaged Averaged 4.498
568 England_Anglo-Saxon:Average Austrian_Averaged Averaged 4.547
626 England_Anglo-Saxon:Average French_East_Averaged Averaged 4.878
683 England_Anglo-Saxon:Average Hungarian_Averaged Averaged 5.167
684 England_Anglo-Saxon:Average French_Averaged Averaged 5.177
716 England_Anglo-Saxon:Average Slovakian_Averaged Averaged 5.387
815 England_Anglo-Saxon:Average Slovenian_Averaged Averaged 5.899
851 England_Anglo-Saxon:Average Polish_Averaged Averaged 6.082
983 England_Anglo-Saxon:Average Moldovan_Averaged Averaged 6.833
1006 England_Anglo-Saxon:Average Bosnian_Averaged Averaged 6.946
1017 England_Anglo-Saxon:Average Ukrainian_Averaged Averaged 7.012
1046 England_Anglo-Saxon:Average Finnish_Averaged Averaged 7.241
1049 England_Anglo-Saxon:Average Russian_Orel_Averaged Averaged 7.264
1059 England_Anglo-Saxon:Average Russian_Voronez_Averaged Averaged 7.322
1072 England_Anglo-Saxon:Average Russian_Kursk_Averaged Averaged 7.378
1100 England_Anglo-Saxon:Average Russian_Smolensk_Averaged Averaged 7.571
1118 England_Anglo-Saxon:Average Russian_Tver_Averaged Averaged 7.673
1124 England_Anglo-Saxon:Average Belarusian_Averaged Averaged 7.699
1143 England_Anglo-Saxon:Average Estonian_Averaged Averaged 7.83
1162 England_Anglo-Saxon:Average Serbian_Averaged Averaged 7.94
1181 England_Anglo-Saxon:Average French_South_Averaged Averaged 8.05

Interesting results above.

[Grace O'Malley]

how accurate is this calc?

Everyone's using it now as you can compare to all these ancients. It's by Davidski and he uses only scientific samples in this. I'd ask Token as he's more versed in it than me.

If you get your coordinates from David of Eurogenes you can use all the calcs. It's the most fun a genetic dna geek can have. It's also updated as new samples are available and Gedmatch is redundant now.

[Creoda]

I'm very close to the Anglo-Saxons on G25 despite being a Celt. Looking at genetics the Insular Celts appear to have been quite close to populations like Anglo-Saxons, Vikings, Germanics anyway. These are the populations I'm closest to and I've left the Anglo-Saxon group in there and a couple of the single Anglo-Saxons in there to show this. My no 1 closest is actually to an Anglo-Saxon. It's all very odd. Moderns bolded and ancients in blue.

England_Anglo-Saxon HS2-I0159 1.81
Icelandic_Averaged Averaged 1.874
Irish_Averaged Averaged 1.876
England_Anglo-Saxon_Averaged Averaged 1.93
Scottish_Averaged Averaged 1.964
Welsh_Averaged Averaged 1.977
Orcadian_Averaged Averaged 1.98
England_Roman_Averaged Averaged 2.146
English_Averaged Averaged 2.206
Hungary_Medieval_Szolad SZ7 CE:505 2.211
Beaker_Mittelelbe-Saale_Averaged Averaged 2.33
Norwegian_Averaged Averaged 2.345
England_Anglo-Saxon NO3423 CE:780 2.356
Scotland_LBA_Averaged Averaged 2.362
English_Cornwall_Averaged Averaged 2.454
Dutch_Averaged Averaged 2.459
Shetlandic_Averaged Averaged 2.494
England_IA_Averaged Averaged 2.553
Swedish_Averaged Averaged 2.659
Germany_Medieval_Averaged Averaged 3.049
Unetice_Averaged Averaged 3.078
Beaker_Britain_Averaged Averaged 3.117
Netherlands_BA_Averaged Averaged 3.271
German_Averaged Averaged 3.333
Sweden_Viking_Age_Averaged Averaged 3.797
Belgian_Averaged Averaged 4.07

My best fits (limited to 25)

1 Scottish Scottish26 1.7
2 Orcadian_Averaged Averaged 1.722
3 Orcadian HGDP00799 1.814
4 Scottish_Averaged Averaged 1.848
5 England_Roman_Averaged Averaged 1.907
6 Irish_Averaged Averaged 1.968
7 England_IA I0160 2.031
8 Scotland_LBA I2860 BCE:892 2.047
9 Orcadian HGDP00798 2.055
10 Scotland_LBA_Averaged Averaged 2.084
11 English_Averaged Averaged 2.087
12 English_Cornwall_Averaged Averaged 2.09
13 Irish Irish58 2.121
14 English_Cornwall HG00252 2.127
15 Scottish Scottish22 2.175
16 Custom AGUser_firemonkey 2.178
17 Scottish Scottish19 2.2
18 English HG02215 2.204
19 Custom AGUser_dsm 2.287
20 Icelandic_Averaged Averaged 2.323
21 Hungary_Medieval_Szolad SZ4 CE:505 2.36
22 Irish Irish34 2.365
23 Custom AGUser_ais 2.366
24 Scottish Scottish24 2.37
25 Irish Irish51 2.382