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Thread: Haplogroup Q among Turkic peoples

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    Default Haplogroup Q among Turkic peoples

    The Turkic languages consist of an eastern (Common Turkic) and a western branch (Oghur Turkic) which are further divided into six branches: Oghuz, Arghu, Kipchak, Oghur, Karluk and Siberian Turkic as this appears in the following scheme[1]:
    Proto-Turkic
    Common Turkic (Eastern)
    Oghuz
    Kipchak
    Karluk
    Siberian
    Arghu
    Oghur Turkic (Western)
    Chuvash
    Bulgar (extinct)
    Khazar? (extinct)
    Indicatively, the following map can be seen: https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikiped...%BArquicas.png
    The separation between eastern and western branches could have been as early as the division of the Göktürk Empire. The Orkhon inscriptions are already in Common Turkic. The westernmost part of the khaganate was controlled by the Khazars.


    The predominant y-dna haplogroup among Turkmen people has been found to be Q-M25[2][3]. In Turkey, according to a research, among 523 samples 9 Q*, 1 Q-M25, 4 R-M73 were found [4]. However this haplogroup is found with a frequency of 13% among Afshar Turks in Turkey[5], whereas it could be even higher among Turkomans. Azerbaijani Turks also display varying frequencies of y-dna Q from 1-10% in Northern Iran[6]. Turkmenistan is also the source region for the population which turkified Anatolia and Azerbaijan. Therefore it is gathered that the original haplogroup among Oghuz Turks was probably Q-M25.

    Tatars and Bashkirs display high frequencies (up to 15%) for haplogroup Q[7][8]. For quite a while, the predominant y-dna haplogroup among Kipchak Turks was thought to be R1b-M73, but this subsequently has been overturned, as pointed out by Behar et al. 2010, it is actually Q. The prevalent Q subclade among Karakalpaks is Q-M346[9]. Haplogroup Q* is found with a frequency 48% among the Kangly tribe of Kazakhs[10].

    The most frequent clade of Q-M242 among Uzbeks and Uyghurs, the two parts of the Karluk family is Q-M346, with the occasional existence of other clades.

    Siberian Turks belong overwhelmingly to the Q-M346 branch, whilst R-M73 is also present among all of them, alas in very low frequencies, and as was pointed earlier this might actually prove to be Q-M25[11][12][13].

    Arghu turkic is a divergent branch of Common Turkic and its sole represenatitve, Khalaj has a small population in Iran which has apparently not been tested. However, the Ghilji Pashtun tribe of neighbouring Afghanistan, which purportedly stems to a large degree from Khalaj Turks, displays a high frequency of Q-L275.[14]

    Ashkenazi Jewish carry 5% of the y-dna Q-M378, which is a subclade of Q-L275 and given their origins in Eastern Europe, where they could actually refer to Khazar ancestry, since Khazars had a quite powerful state in the Ukrainian steppes with Judaism as the main religion [15]. In Bulgaria, we also have cases of Q-L275 which are more numerous than other Q subclades[16]. Bulgars were an oghuric speaking tribe.

    The little samples among Chuvash belonging to haplogroup Q-M242 belong to the Q-M25 subclade.

    The phylogeny of haplogroup Q-M242 and its subclades with their defining mutations according to the 2018 ISOGG tree is presented below[17]:
    Q-M242 M242
    Q-F903 (Q1)
    Q-F1096 F1096, F1215
    Q-NWT01 NWT01
    Q-M120 M120, M265/N14
    Q-M25 M25, M143
    Q-L712 L712
    Q-M346 L56, L57, M346, L528
    Q-L53 L53
    Q-L54 L54
    Q-CTS11969 CTS11969, M930
    Q-M3 M3
    Q-M19 M19
    Q-L804 L804
    Q-CTS1780 CTS1780, M981, M971, Z780
    Q-L330 L330
    Q-F835 F835, L940
    Q-F1161 F1161
    Q-L527 L527
    Q-L275 L275, L314 (Q2)
    Q-M378 M378/Page100, L214, L215/Page82
    Q-FGC1774 FGC1774, Y2016
    Q-245 L245
    Q-Y1150 Y1150

    Therefore, it can be seen that there is a general resemblance between the phylogeny of haplogroup Q-M242 in the Old World and the classification scheme of the Turkic languages. Specifically, Q-F903 could match to Common Turkic while Q-L275 is a much better match for Oghur Turkic. Furthermore, Q-M25 could relate to Oghuz and Kipchak branches, while Q-M346 correlates more with the Karluk and Siberian turkic branches. A subclade of Q-M346, namely Q-L330 is known to have close correlation with the Yeniseian language family.

    It is subsequently proposed that the various subclades of haplogroup Q-M242 had a prominent role in the diversification of the Turkic languages and the expansion of Turkic speaking peoples[18].

    [1] Lars Johanson (1998) http://www.turkiclanguages.com/www/classification.html
    [2] http://генофонд.рф/wp-content/upload..._096-print.pdf
    [3] https://www.nature.com/articles/s41598-017-03176-z
    [4] https://link.springer.com/article/10...439-003-1031-4
    [5] https://repository.upenn.edu/dissertations/AAI3328565/
    [6] http://images.biomedsearch.com/22815...UyNRNhVTWrA%3D http://www.biomedsearch.com/nih/Anci.../22815981.html
    [7] http://s155239215.onlinehome.us/turk...icGenetics.htm http://s155239215.onlinehome.us/turk...atarsY_DNA.gif
    [8] https://link.springer.com/article/10...26893316060029
    [9] https://images.nature.com/full/natur...g2014285x5.pdf
    [10] http://docplayer.ru/60705358-Federal...izatovich.html
    [11] https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1380230/
    [12] https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3276666
    [13] https://www.nature.com/articles/jhg201164
    [14] https://bmcevolbiol.biomedcentral.co...862-016-0870-2
    [15] https://www.researchgate.net/publica..._collaboration
    [16] http://journals.plos.org/plosone/art...l.pone.0056779
    [17] https://isogg.org/tree/ISOGG_HapgrpQ.html
    [18] https://www.researchgate.net/publica...p_Q_in_Eurasia

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    Quote Originally Posted by Shubotai View Post
    .
    Thank you for the information you provided!

    I'm aware of the Yeniseian connection of L330, but I personally wonder how it ended up in Bulgaria(Ethnic Balkan Turk, only Turkish speaker). If I would ask your personal opinion what would you say about it? It seems to be not found among Oghuz. What about Crimean Tatars? Or any other community migrated to west during medieval or before?

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    I wonder what Haplogroup was ertugurl
    Quote Originally Posted by Altaylı View Post
    you look more scythian sarmatian than mixed blondes(they mixed with I)

    you are true r1b
    Quote Originally Posted by Noff View Post
    I saw him. Looks like ancient Roman + South Slavic or Magyar
    Quote Originally Posted by Ford View Post
    Basal R and Q are too old to be directly associated with any linguistic group.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Shubotai View Post

    Ashkenazi Jewish carry 5% of the y-dna Q-M378, which is a subclade of Q-L275 and given their origins in Eastern Europe, where they could actually refer to Khazar ancestry, since Khazars had a quite powerful state in the Ukrainian steppes with Judaism as the main religion [15].
    It's impossible that Q-Y2200(The Ashkenazi Q subclade) is Khazar in origin. It's a typical Western Jewish clade, as it left behind Italian descendants at the start of the exile period. It could not have arrived through Eastern Europe. Furthermore, all Jewish groups: Ashkenazi, Sephardi, and Mizrachi belong to to some Q subclade. Q-Y2200, in particular, also has Sephardic Jews.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Pine View Post
    It's impossible that Q-Y2200(The Ashkenazi Q subclade) is Khazar in origin. It's a typical Western Jewish clade, as it left behind Italian descendants at the start of the exile period. It could not have arrived through Eastern Europe. Furthermore, all Jewish groups: Ashkenazi, Sephardi, and Mizrachi belong to to some Q subclade. Q-Y2200, in particular, also has Sephardic Jews.
    Q is definitely originated somewhere in Eurasian steppes. Idk how it came to jewish people, but it havnt a jewish origin.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Pine View Post
    It's impossible that Q-Y2200(The Ashkenazi Q subclade) is Khazar in origin. It's a typical Western Jewish clade, as it left behind Italian descendants at the start of the exile period. It could not have arrived through Eastern Europe. Furthermore, all Jewish groups: Ashkenazi, Sephardi, and Mizrachi belong to to some Q subclade. Q-Y2200, in particular, also has Sephardic Jews.
    Q is definitely originated somewhere in Eurasian steppes. Idk how it came to jewish people, but it havnt a jewish origin.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Bender1999 View Post
    Q is definitely originated somewhere in Eurasian steppes. Idk how it came to jewish people, but it havnt a jewish origin.
    Q predates the Jewish people. According to your reasoning, since Y-Adam is African, no one can be anything but African now.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Pine View Post
    Q predates the Jewish people.
    No, maybe in a parallel universe. Early IEs, Iranics, Finno Ugrics, Turkics and Siberian people have it naturally.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Bender1999 View Post
    No, maybe in a parallel universe. Early IEs, Iranics, Finno Ugrics, Turkics and Siberian people have it naturally.
    Do you speak English?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Pine View Post
    Do you speak English?
    No tagalog.

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