View Poll Results: Which is more likely?

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  • The Siculi, Sicanians, and Elymians were absorbed into the Greek and Punic populations, their DNA makes a significant portion of ours today.

    4 57.14%
  • The Siculi were likely pushed inland and marginalized, and contribute little to our DNA, but the other two populations were not.

    1 14.29%
  • All three populations were likely reduced in number by Greek and Punic colonists, and contribute little to our DNA today.

    2 28.57%
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Thread: Did the ancient Greeks genocide, or assimilate, the Siculi of Sicily?

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    Default Did the ancient Greeks genocide, or assimilate, the Siculi of Sicily?

    Ever since I began researching Sicilian history and studying the DNA results of Sicilians, I have come across a persistent historical footnote in nearly all online sources, and even across anthrofora, and it always goes something like this:

    Sicily and Malta were inhabited by an ancient people called the Sicanians, the people who built the Malta's Megalithic Temples. It is unknown what they would have been like genetically, but my best guess is they would have been similar to Minoans. The Minoans were, according to mythology, in contact with them, such as in stories like Daedalus and Icarus, and while we cannot treat ancient mythology as a historical source, it does suggest that they were in contact with the Aegean.



    The arrival of the Siculi in eastern Sicily and the arrival of the Elymians in western Sicily pushed the Sicanians toward the center of the island.



    The Phoenicians/Carthaginians merged with the Elymians in western Sicily. The Elymians sided with the Phoenicians over the Greeks.

    Some of the Sicanians, whose territory overlapped both with the Greek and Phoenician settlements, being a more advanced culture who had been receiving Aegean influences even before the Greek colonists arrived, were peacefully Hellenized and others are believed to have assimilated into Punic culture. Any remaining descendants of the Sicanians would have been overridden by later waves of migration: Arab era settlement from the Middle East, Byzantine Greek settlement, and so on.

    The Siculi on the other hand fought vigorously against the Greeks and were pushed further and further inland, into the region that is now Enna, the eastern part of Palermo, and the inland east. They were eventually defeated by the Greek colonies and ceased to exist as a distinct identity.

    The question becomes, were the Siculi mostly Hellenized, or were they pushed out of Sicily and/or killed? If we believe the commonly cited history, we would believe that, at least, coastal Sicilians have almost no ancestry from the Siculi.

    Based on genetics, the people in the region inhabited by the Siculi in ancient times, today are very close to Cretan and Dodecanese Greeks, and are much less similar to central Italians, where the Siculi were believed to come from. Haplogroup R1b is common in eastern Sicily but is often R1b-L23 which is of West Asian origins. I do not see any strong evidence of their presence in our DNA today.

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    Ancient greeks never did geonocides on local populations!!!

    Everywhere they went,they just assimilated the natives.

    From sicily,to asia minor and even with alexanders the great conquest in middle east.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Thalassa Karadeni View Post
    Ancient greeks never did geonocides on local populations!!!

    Everywhere they went,they just assimilated the natives.

    From sicily,to asia minor and even with alexanders the great conquest in middle east.

    I would agree with this in general, but the Siculi were resistant to Greek colonization and tried many times (unsuccessfully) to drive the Greeks out of Sicily. It is known that, at least, they lost entire control of coastal Sicily, and the reason for this is often stated that the Greeks pushed them inland and simply drove them out.

    We eventually ended up with this (and that empty inland area is where the native populations ended up):


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    Quote Originally Posted by Sikeliot View Post
    I would agree with this in general, but the Siculi were resistant to Greek colonization and tried many times (unsuccessfully) to drive the Greeks out of Sicily. It is known that, at least, they lost entire control of coastal Sicily, and the reason for this is often stated that the Greeks pushed them inland and simply drove them out.

    We eventually ended up with this (and that empty inland area is where the native populations ended up):


    And some of them moved to sardinia right?

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    I dont think they were active in committing genocides. If anything, history shows us that they've preferred to assimilate the natives into Greek culture and religion. Sure you can argue this to be cultural genocide but as far as indiscriminantly wiping out entire populations through organized killings? Probably a bit of a stretch.

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    There were migrations to Italy they didn't go there en masse. Even under Ottoman occupation Greeks existed and large portions of mainland Greece was self ruled.
    “For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places.” Eph. 6:12

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    Google Tyrsennoi / Teresh / Tursha, they were ancient seafarers, and settled in Anatolia, Sicily, Lebanon and North Africa.


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    Interesting, Sikeloi sounds like Szekely, which basically means "Sak land".


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    I definitely think there is some truth to the notion that the coasts of Sicily saw a reduction in the indigenous populations, and that to some degree they were in fact pushed inland. I do not think they were entirely genocided, but I would say their ancestry definitely does not contribute to the majority of ours today. Though the inland was subject to heavy waves of MENA migration later so it would have eroded the original populations, too.

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    I don't know anything about that but i voted in the third option, that all populations where reduced

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