What Church should I Join?

[rein]

Westboro church perhaps.

[renaissance12]

You don't listen. I don't have anything against the Apostolic Fathers. But the Apostolic Fathers did not belong to the Roman Catholic Church.. it hadn't yet existed at that time in the present form... and wasn't so corrupted as it is now. So you don't have any point to make. These Apostolic Fathers would have been more at home in a Protestant church today.

And you don't understand....what magisterium is..

The magisterium of the Catholic Church is the church's authority or office to establish teachings.
That authority is vested uniquely in the Pope and the bishops, under the premise that they are in communion with the correct and true teachings of the faith which is shown in the Catechism of the Catholic Church.
Sacred scripture and sacred tradition ( Teachings of the first Bishops who met personally the apostles ) "make up a single sacred deposit of the Word of God, which is entrusted to the Church" and the magisterium is not independent of this, since "all that it proposes for belief as being divinely revealed is derived from this single deposit of faith.

The first Bishops reveal to us the "canon of Tradition" by establishing which traditions have been passed down from the Apostles.

You can't blame Roman Catholic Church because it remains adherent to the traditions...


No Pope can modify the magisterium...

Papal teachings, then, including exercises of the extraordinary Magisterium, cannot contradict Scripture, Tradition, or previous binding papal teaching. Nor can it introduce utter novelties. Popes have authority only to preserve and interpret what they have received. They can draw out the implications of previous teaching or clarify it where it is ambiguous. They can make formally binding what was already informally taught. But they cannot reverse past teaching and they cannot make up new doctrines out of whole cloth.


Don't diminish the teachings of the Bishops who personally met the Apostles..



.

[Loki]

And you don't understand....what magisterium is..

The magisterium of the Catholic Church is the church's authority or office to establish teachings.
That authority is vested uniquely in the Pope and the bishops, under the premise that they are in communion with the correct and true teachings of the faith which is shown in the Catechism of the Catholic Church.
Sacred scripture and sacred tradition ( Teachings of the first Bishops who met personally the apostles ) "make up a single sacred deposit of the Word of God, which is entrusted to the Church" and the magisterium is not independent of this, since "all that it proposes for belief as being divinely revealed is derived from this single deposit of faith.

The first Bishops reveal to us the "canon of Tradition" by establishing which traditions have been passed down from the Apostles.

You can't blame Roman Catholic Church because it remains adherent to the traditions...


No Pope can modify the magisterium...

Papal teachings, then, including exercises of the extraordinary Magisterium, cannot contradict Scripture, Tradition, or previous binding papal teaching. Nor can it introduce utter novelties. Popes have authority only to preserve and interpret what they have received. They can draw out the implications of previous teaching or clarify it where it is ambiguous. They can make formally binding what was already informally taught. But they cannot reverse past teaching and they cannot make up new doctrines out of whole cloth.


Don't diminish the teachings of the Bishops who personally met the Apostles..



.

Are you really saying the Catholic bishops living today personally met with the Apostles? Are they 2000 years old?

And this Catholic Church uses its own authority, they don't obey the Holy Spirit or listen to him. If they had done so, things would have been very different. Catholics wouldn't have prayed to Mary, to saints, and stuff like that. False teachings like Purgatory wouldn't have been propagated. Catholic priests wouldn't have been openly atheists or pedophiles. The Catholic Church wouldn't have burned real Christians alive in their churches, or at the stake with Bibles around their necks. The CC wouldn't have tried to prevent the Bible from spreading.

[renaissance12]

Are you really saying the Catholic bishops living today personally met with the Apostles? Are they 2000 years old?

I m saying that there written proof and teachings of the FIRST CHRISIAN BISHOPS who met personally the apostles..
Old Christians teaching and traditions are not an invention of VATICAN...

And this Catholic Church uses its own authority, they don't obey the Holy Spirit or listen to him. If they had done so, things would have been very different. Catholics wouldn't have prayed to Mary, to saints, and stuff like that. False teachings like Purgatory wouldn't have been propagated. Catholic priests wouldn't have been openly atheists or pedophiles. The Catholic Church wouldn't have burned real Christians alive in their churches, or at the stake with Bibles around their necks. The CC wouldn't have tried to prevent the Bible from spreading.

We also ask Mary for prayers — to intercede for us, much like we would ask a friend here on earth to pray for us.... Is it clear ?

The Witness of Tradition: The Early Church Fathers indicate that this (PURGATORY ) was considered apostolic teaching. They demonstrate that this belief in purgatory and prayers for the dead clearly goes back to the Apostles.

1.St. John Chrysostom: “It was not without good reason ordained by the Apostles that mention should be made of the dead in the tremendous mysteries, because they knew well that they would receive great benefit from it.”


2.Tertullian (2nd Century): “The faithful wife will pray for the soul of her deceased husband, particularly on the anniversary day of his falling asleep (death). And if she failed to do so, she hath repudiated her husband as far as in her lies.” (Prayers for a deceased person would be useless without a doctrine of purgatory).


3.Eusebius the historian (4th Century): described the funeral of Constantine the Great, how the multitude of people, with tears and much lamentation offered up prayers and sacrifices for his soul. And that Eusebius had reported that Constantine had built a large church in Constantinople so that the faithful might remember him there and pray for him after his death.


4.St. Cyril of Jerusalem(4th): “We commemorate the holy fathers, and bishops, and all who have fallen asleep from amongst us, believing that the supplications which we present will be of great assistance to their souls, while the holy and tremendous sacrifice offered up. . . So we in offering up a crown of prayers in behalf of those who have fallen asleep, will obtain for them forgiveness through the merits of Christ.”


5.St. Ephrem(4th): “I conjure you, my brethren and friends, in the name of that God who commands me to leave you, to remember me when you assemble to pray. Do not bury me with perfumes. Give them not to me but to God. Me, conserved in sorrows, bury with lamentations, and instead of perfumes assist me with your prayers; for the dead are benefitted by the prayers of saints.”


.

[Loki]

You don't get it. I agree with these first bishops. But they don't agree with the Catholic Church!

[Loki]

You don't need Mary to intercede for you. Go straight to Jesus Christ! And not the false, "Angry Jesus" of the Catholic Church, but the real, loving one!

[renaissance12]

You don't get it. I agree with these first bishops. But they don't agree with the Catholic Church!

What do you mean when you say Catholic Church?

Can you describe, in simple words, what is the Catholic Church ?..

[renaissance12]

You don't need Mary to intercede for you. Go straight to Jesus Christ! And not the false, "Angry Jesus" of the Catholic Church, but the real, loving one!

The official position of the Roman Catholic Church is that asking saints for their prayers is no different than asking someone here on earth to pray for us.
Pray to” does not mean (or even imply) “worship”

Catholics and -MARTIN LUTHER- do not view Mary as equal to Christ, but rather venerate Mary because of her relationship to Christ..


Martin Luther ( who was right from some points of view.. because at that time some bishops and priests were personally corrupt ..)

The veneration of Mary is inscribed in the very depths of the human heart.

(Sermon, September 1, 1522

Virgin Mary is the highest woman and the noblest gem in Christianity after Christ . . . She is nobility, wisdom, and holiness personified. We can never honor her enough. Still honor and praise must be given to her in such a way as to injure neither Christ nor the Scriptures.

(Sermon, Christmas, 1531)

[Loki]

The official position of the Roman Catholic Church is that asking saints for their prayers is no different than asking someone here on earth to pray for us.
Pray to” does not mean (or even imply) “worship”

Catholics and -MARTIN LUTHER- do not view Mary as equal to Christ, but rather venerate Mary because of her relationship to Christ..


Martin Luther ( who was right from some points of view.. because at that time some bishops and priests were personally corrupt ..)

The veneration of Mary is inscribed in the very depths of the human heart.

(Sermon, September 1, 1522

Virgin Mary is the highest woman and the noblest gem in Christianity after Christ . . . She is nobility, wisdom, and holiness personified. We can never honor her enough. Still honor and praise must be given to her in such a way as to injure neither Christ nor the Scriptures.

(Sermon, Christmas, 1531)

I don't care what the Roman Catholic Church (or Martin Luther for that matter) does or views Mary as.. I follow the Bible and the Gospel as revealed to the Apostles. And there is nothing in there about Mary veneration, or saying Hail Marys, etc etc. It's idolatry.

The Virgin Mary is was a normal human being, like the rest of us. She is not divine, and she is not listening to our prayers either. She is not at all like Jesus. I don't care what Martin Luther said about the matter. Lutheran churches are also full of idolatry, like the Roman Catholic Church, and they have also changed the Ten Commandments so that they could have their idols.

[Larali]

I'm going to try out an Episcopal church next Sunday.... mostly for the social aspect though, not religious.