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Thread: Why are people so proud of having Norman ancestry and being connected to the Crusades?

  1. #61
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    Lebos want to be european to distance themselves from arabs.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Sikeliot View Post
    He looked more French to me but honestly could have passed as English.
    Thats the nickname they gave him here where blue eyes and blond hair was typically associated with english not french.

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    I think the Lebanese actress Razan Moghrabi, when young, looked Norman influenced. But considering she's of Sunni Muslim background, she probably has Mamluk influence as well.

    ~

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    Crusaders swung swords. That is bad ass. Everyone wants to be associated with a bad ass.

    Or at least the romantic version of a bad ass. To swing a sword is totally bad ass but a lot of assholes swing swords and I'm sure it wasn't all puppies and kittens dealing with someone who likes to swing his sword to get his way.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Danielion View Post
    Crusaders were badasses. That's why. Sure, they were a corrupt bunch who were out of getting land and committed atrocities, but they were very brave and resilient. I'm talking about the First Crusade, the 'successful' one, of course.

    Forming a shield wall, while getting showered by Seljuk arrows for hours in the scorching sun protecting Christian civilians, until reinforcements arrive. It takes commitment.
    We were riding the same thought wave.

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    The Anglo-Normans were the medieval ruling class in England and those with Anglo-Norman surnames such as Balliol, Baskerville, Glanville, Lacy, Mandeville, and Venables are wealthier than those with simple Anglo-Saxon surnames. After the Norman conquest, Britain came under Anglo-Norman rule and the British nobility is closely associated with the Anglo-Normans.

    Research shows that the descendants of people who in 1858 had "rich" surnames such as Percy and Glanville, indicating they were descended from the French nobility, are still substantially wealthier in 2011 than those with traditionally "poor" or artisanal surnames. Artisans are defined as skilled manual workers.

    Drawing on data culled from official records that go back as far as the Domesday Book as well as university admissions and probate archives, Gregory Clark, a professor of economics at the University of California, has tracked what became of people whose surnames indicated their ancestors had come from either the aristocratic or artisanal classes.

    By studying the probate records of those with “rich” and “poor” surnames every decade since the 1850s, he found that the extreme differences in accumulated wealth narrowed over time.

    But the value of the estates left by those belonging to the “rich” surname group, immortalised in the character of Fitzwilliam Darcy, in Jane Austen's Pride and Prejudice, were above the national average by at least 10 per cent.

    In addition, today the holders of "rich" surnames live three years longer than average. Life expectancy is a strong indicator of socio-economic status.

    Popular names of the medieval elite who were descended from Norman families include Balliol, Baskerville, Bruce, Darcy, Glanville, Lacy, Mandeville, and Venables.

    Popular artisanal names that emerged in the 14th century include Smith, Carpenter, Mason, Shepherd, Cooper and Baker
    Last edited by sailormoon; 07-12-2018 at 05:53 PM.

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    ? They arent important to me.

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    Quote Originally Posted by cybernautic View Post
    Interesting similar to Toppo900
    My paternal grandmother was a Lebanese shi3a which makes me 1/4th Lebanese, yes.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Sikeliot View Post
    I know many Lebanese in my area (we have a large Lebanese immigrant population) who have said they are proud of their "Crusades" and "Norman" and "French" ancestry (whether they have it or not).

    The same is true for many Sicilians and Maltese. All light hair and eyes is attributed to this, and people are so proud of having Norman ancestry, and even though there was a period of cultural prosperity, this admixture entered our populations by force.

    Why does having connections to Normans or the Crusades make some people so proud? Is it because of Islamophobia? I cannot think of any other reason. It strikes me as people who want to be something other than what they are, clinging to a tiny minority of their ancestry.

    As for Norman input in Ireland and England, it entered not through conquest for religious reasons but because of a power vacuum left by the Anglo-Saxons and Celts, but I don't see the same level of pride for this ancestry among Brits and Irish as I do among people from further south and east...
    I think Irish people just think of Norman ancestry as part of the Irish ethnicity. There are so many Norman surnames in Ireland people don't think about it much. I don't think having Norman blood in Ireland would make people proud anyway because they were invaders and opened the door to British involvement in Ireland. I think people can discuss it openly but no one is going to say they are proud to have that ancestry. I'm not sure of the amount of Normans that came to Ireland but the surnames are definitely ubiquitous.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Grace O'Malley View Post
    I think Irish people just think of Norman ancestry as part of the Irish ethnicity. There are so many Norman surnames in Ireland people don't think about it much. I don't think having Norman blood in Ireland would make people proud anyway because they were invaders and opened the door to British involvement in Ireland. I think people can discuss it openly but no one is going to say they are proud to have that ancestry. I'm not sure of the amount of Normans that came to Ireland but the surnames are definitely ubiquitous.
    Any "Irishman" who isn't R1b is a fraud and an imposter.

    (I'm I1, but my paternal grandfather was of Germanic origin, with no Irish roots whatsoever. My grandmother is 100% Irish)

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