Your thoughts on the Ottoman Empire?

[Ushtari]

As for the apricity's resident imperialist comments aimed at Serbs as durable Ottoman soldiers, entire Janissary elite corps were from non muslims, preferable Balkan Christians, who were taken as children to Istanbul through "taxation in blood" and made into elite soldiers who would fight and die for sultan.

Ottoman please...

A known Grand vizier(second highest rank in the empire), is the Serb Mehmed-paša Sokolović. He had big influence in the ottoman empire, meaning the enemies of the ottomans must have been his enemies to, right?

Kosovo polje, 1389. The Serb Marko Kraljevic, allied with the Turks against Christians. Also, the battle of nicopolis, were the Serb Stefan Lazerovic with his forces were allied with the Sultan Beyazid, against catholics. Also, in the second battle of Kosovo(1448), skenderbeg moved to join the Hungarian coalition but they were intercepted and attacked by the Ottoman vassal Đurađ Branković of Serbia, and delayed from reaching the battlefield. Skanderbeg and his army ravaged Branković's land to punish Serbs for desertion of Christian cause.
http://books.google.com/books?id=0Sz...senate&f=false

[Loddfafner]

Actually, there was considerable manufacturing throughout the Ottoman Empire, and historians have argued that the industrial revolution might have taken off based in Bursa had Manchester not gotten there first.

[poiuytrewq0987]

The fall of Constantinople which paved the way for Ottoman rule of the Balkans. The shadow of Ottoman rule even continue to be pervasive today with Islamist Bosnians and Albanians who work everyday to undermine Christianity in the Balkans.

Before the Ottomans came we had three strong European states in the Balkans and that were the Serbian, Bulgarian and Byzantine empires (Byzantine Empire would have later become an ethnocentric state of the Greeks had it not fell). The Balkans was never fragmented as it is today and 99% of the fragmentation that exists today is the consequence of allowing the Ottomans to rule us for 500 years.



An example of how nice and neat the Balkans used to be before it got all messed up by the Ottomans. Obviously most of Greece that were occupied by us should be handed back to the Byzantine Empire and Dalmatia to Serbia. And we've got a perfect non-fragmented Balkans but no, we don't have that today, thanks to the Ottomans.

The 500 years of Ottoman rule brought on a population growth decline of Balkan ethnics. The population total of the Greeks during the Byzantine period was about 5 million and today the population of Greece? Ten million. The population of Greeks in Europe grew by only five million over a period of 500 years. To compare, Turkey grew from 20 million in 1920 to 75 million today. Serbia's population during the medieval period was about 2 to 3 million and today we're at 7 million in the Balkans. We grew only 4 million over 500 years. Undoubtedly the Ottomans' rule was the primary cause for such slow growth.

We were also denied a lot of indigenous European cultural growth and replaced for a Central Asian, Turkish one. Natural evolutions of a European culture always occur over a period of a couple hundred years but no, we were suppressed for 500 years and thus retarded our cultural growth to an amalgamation of Ottoman and Serbian cultural growth instead with the Serbian portion severely crippled due to the repressive Islamic society that was the Ottoman Empire.

The Gypsy migration from India to Europe is also one of the boons of the Ottoman Empire. If it wasn't for the Ottomans, the Gypsies that now terrorize much of Southeastern Europe would not be even here today. Such migration of Indians was only a preview of what we see today in London, Paris and Berlin. If we want to see how such migration of a non-European people will look like after 500 years then look no further than the Balkans. Granted, the amount of non-Europeans that have migrated to Western Europe are much larger and have migrated more quickly than the Gypsies ever did but they do provide us with a good idea of what to expect.

All in all, the Ottoman Empire was very damaging to Europe, the Balkans specifically. Unfortunately, it is a damage that is largely irreversible today however we can always try to eliminate most of it by deporting Gypsies and Muslims to the hellhole that is Turkey.

[poiuytrewq0987]

Ottoman please...

A known Grand vizier(second highest rank in the empire), is the Serb Mehmed-paša Sokolović. He had big influence in the ottoman empire, meaning the enemies of the ottomans must have been his enemies to, right?

Kosovo polje, 1389. The Serb Marko Kraljevic, allied with the Turks against Christians. Also, the battle of nicopolis, were the Serb Stefan Lazerovic with his forces were allied with the Sultan Beyazid, against catholics. Also, in the second battle of Kosovo(1448), skenderbeg moved to join the Hungarian coalition but they were intercepted and attacked by the Ottoman vassal Đurađ Branković of Serbia, and delayed from reaching the battlefield. Skanderbeg and his army ravaged Branković's land to punish Serbs for desertion of Christian cause.
http://books.google.com/books?id=0Sz...senate&f=false

Oh please... you're going to pick select traitors and then claim that as evidence that we are Turk lovers? At least today we are not even close to a Muslim state whereas 80% of Albania is Muslim, 99% of Kosovo Muslim and all of Albanians in FYROM are also Muslim. Now fuck off.

[Ushtari]

Serbian lies seem to have got to new levels, not that strange considering lying is a part of these neo-turks identity(see signature).

The fall of Constantinople which paved the way for Ottoman rule of the Balkans. The shadow of Ottoman rule even continue to be pervasive today with Islamist Bosnians and Albanians who work everyday to undermine Christianity in the Balkans.

The only kind of religious terrorism/radicalism that exists in todays Balkan is the Serbian Orhodox Christian one, whos clerics openly support genocide on non-serb and blessed their soldies/terrorists before they executed 8000 Bosnians in Srebenica, all in the name of Orthodox Christianism.

The Balkans was never fragmented as it is today and 99% of the fragmentation that exists today is the consequence of allowing the Ottomans to rule us for 500 years.

No, the fragmention that exist today in Balkan is due to Serbian terrorism.

We grew only 4 million over 500 years. Undoubtedly the Ottomans' rule was the primary cause for such slow growth.

Like in war times, Serbs have also showed themselfs to be incapable of reproducing themself. Serbia have one of the fastest declining population in europe, also given the fact that Serbia also have one of the oldest populations in the world where the majority of the Serb womens have reached infertile age. So they are doomed to be extinct, wich of course is a great thing for peace in the Balkans.

We were also denied a lot of indigenous European cultural growth and replaced for a Central Asian, Turkish one. Natural evolutions of a European culture always occur over a period of a couple hundred years but no, we were suppressed for 500 years and thus retarded our cultural growth to an amalgamation of Ottoman and Serbian cultural growth instead with the Serbian portion severely crippled due to the repressive Islamic society that was the Ottoman Empire.

The Orthodox church was shining during ottoman empire and orthodox people even had a own millet where they could preach their religion freely, unlike Catholics who where the main enemy of the ottoman empire.

The Gypsy migration from India to Europe is also one of the boons of the Ottoman Empire. If it wasn't for the Ottomans, the Gypsies that now terrorize much of Southeastern Europe would not be even here today. Such migration of Indians was only a preview of what we see today in London, Paris and Berlin. If we want to see how such migration of a non-European people will look like after 500 years then look no further than the Balkans. Granted, the amount of non-Europeans that have migrated to Western Europe are much larger and have migrated more quickly than the Gypsies ever did but they do provide us with a good idea of what to expect.

Gypsies, apart from Serbs have shown themself to be able to reproduce themself and do soon make up 10% of the sebian population. They will most probably be in majority in a near future, so what do you think we should name Serbia? i go for "Republika u Magjupsku i Srbiju".

All in all, the Ottoman Empire was very damaging to Europe and the Balkans specifically. Unfortunately, it is a damage that is largely irreversible today however we can always try to eliminate most of it by deporting Gypsies and Muslims to the hellhole that is Turkey.

Indeed, you Serbo-Turkish hybrids need to be expelled back to your homelands.

[The Lawspeaker]

The thing is, Ushtari, you are not even European. And the same goes for you, Joe. I am more inclined to believe the Serbs here because they are.

[Joe McCarthy]

Actually, there was considerable manufacturing throughout the Ottoman Empire, and historians have argued that the industrial revolution might have taken off based in Bursa had Manchester not gotten there first.

True, though interestingly enough this seemed to be least centered in the European portion of the empire, one would assume due to that region being such a source for their elite warrior class.

[Monolith]

A known Grand vizier(second highest rank in the empire), is the Serb Mehmed-paša Sokolović. He had big influence in the ottoman empire, meaning the enemies of the ottomans must have been his enemies to, right?

Yes. The Ottoman society was a mixture of worst imaginable tyranny and democracy, so virtually anyone could become a Grand vizier or even a sultan.

My opinion about the Ottoman empire is very negative, since they ruined the medieval Croatian kingdom; demographically, culturally, politically and economically. Also, constant warfare against them as well as several centuries of occupation of some Croatian regions produced a series of awful cultural traits (mostly mentality) that, rather sadly, linger among the Croats to this day.

[The Journeyman]

Under Ottoman rule, Serbs were not allowed to read, write, own property and even forbidden to use musical instruments. The Gusle player is so important to Serbs because the Guslar was the only one who carried on the cultural traditions and folklore of the Serbs. Many Guslars had their eyes taken out as a result of defying the laws.

So for a Serb to call someone a turk is like calling them a philistine/brute/ugly person all in one word.

[Monolith]

Obviously most of Greece that were occupied by us should be handed back to the Byzantine Empire and Dalmatia to Serbia.

Only in your wet dreams. What is now Dalmatia used to be Croatia in the strict sense, with the bulk of Croatian population living there. It was the seat of Croatian kings like three hundred years before medieval Serbian kingdom came into being. You would do well to at least partially educate yourself before posting such crap.