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ha-ha. LOL. How do you know that this is a Türk burial?Originally Posted by Böri
"The continuation was direct."
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I can't tell exactly how far they reached, but they were part of modern day Turkey fighting for both the Byzantines and the Caliphate, so you can put two and two together, but yes Assyrians and Armenians were the bigger majority in general.
Who would those burials belong to then you think?ha-ha. LOL. How do you know that this is a Türk burial?
"The continuation was direct."
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Göktürk army was described by an Armenian to be hideous, swarthy and slant eyed.
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And Greeks described that army (bulk from Khazars led by Göktürk elite) as savior. Emperor even sent his daughter to Tong as gift.
That Armenian was client of Sassanis and wasn't happy to see Turks storming into Transcaucasus, why so aggressive.
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No idea. OP has not posted the date of samples or complementary publications. It is my understanding that the burial is merely of Köktürk "era" which is quite ambiguous given the volatility and uncertainty of the makeup of Eastern Steppes during that time period. Türks cremated bodies or buried their dead with the horse. Kipchaks had peculiar horse burials in that the body of the deceased was placed in various positions (upright, etc). Old Uighurs/Toquz Oghuz buried their dead with a loaded bow (no horse). It is the work of archaeologists and historians to establish the origin of those burials. The possibility of non-Turkic samples should not be ruled out. The samples are not from Mongolia which raises further questions.
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But these samples seem a bit too young and too much Mong. admixed to be an Indo-Iranian tribe this late, would be nice to see some y- and mtdna here. AFAIK Scytho-Sarmatians buried their dead with many horses, jewelry and weapons.
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You still inventing stories?
Göktürks were burrying their dead. Either directly or after burning.
Chinese sources explained that in detail.
https://en.unesco.org/silkroad/sites..._silk_road.pdf
Chinese sources provide detailed accounts of Göktürk burial ceremonies during the
sixth to eighth centuries. A Tang chronicle gives the following description of a burial
ceremony which took place in the sixth century: “They place the body in a tent, and the man’s
sons, grandsons, and other kinsmen whether man or woman sacrifice horses and sheep and
spread them before the tent. They ride around the tent seven times on horseback. They cut
their faces with knives and weep at the tent door. Mixed blood and tears run down their faces.
They repeat this ceremony seven times. Then on a certain day they bury the body with his
horse and all personal objects which he used, or burn him on a pyre. If the body is burned they
bury the ashes in his tomb on a particular day of the year. They bury those who have died in
summer in autumn, when the grass and leaves turn brown, and those who die in winter they
bury in spring when the flowers bloom and the snows have melted. On the burial day the
kinsmen of the dead person ride around on horseback, cut their faces and cry, just as they did
on the day of death. They paint pictures of the dead man and the battles in which he fought on
the walls of the structure erected over the grave. If the dead person has killed a man during his
life they place a stone over his grave. Sometimes these stones amount to one hundred or even
one thousand. After sacrificing horses and sheep they place the heads on stakes.”
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Notice, Göktürks rode on horse 7 times around the tent (where their dead was resting before burial) as part of the funeral ceremony.
They cut themselves and mixed blood and tears.
Ceremony repeated 7 times. That's the cult of ancestors.
The Ashina clan was also going to an unknown place called Ötüken (forested hill probably), they were organizing some ceremonies at night time under moon light and the Gray Wolves howlings. They sacrificed also for the souls of their ancestors.
After Türk was Islamicized, they dropped that tradition of cult of ancestor, but now they turn 7 times around Kaba in Mecca when they go for pilgrimage. That's called tawaf.
7 is interesting and important number.
Last edited by Böri; 07-20-2018 at 10:55 PM.
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Yaglakar pretends there was no mausoleum, sarcophagus or so.
Another oxymoron. They had, for the elites, special rites.
Part of the cult of ancestors, the coffin was on higher raised mound.
When the dead was someone important, his sarcophagus was fancy.
Example here of a Yabgu burried in eastern Mongolia (Türk ruling over Mongolic subjects).
A SQUARE MONUMENT COMPLEX COMPRISING OF 14 PILLARS INSCRIBED WITH TURKIC RUNIC INSCRIPTIONS HAS BEEN DISCOVERED ON THE STEPPE AT THE ARCHAEOLOGICAL SITE OF DONGOIN SHIREE IN EASTERN MONGOLIA.
The discovery was made during a joint excavation by Osaka University and the Institute of History and Archaeology of the Mongolian Academy of Sciences on a three-year research project.
It was previously believed that inscriptions were only on the steppes in the western region of Ulan Bator, however the discovery has now shed light on relationships and the tribal balances of power in eastern Mongolia in the Middle Ages.
The monument itself is of a square configuration comprising of 14 stone pillars, surrounding a sarcophagus within the centre of a raised mound.
Each inscription contains the tamga of the ancient Turkic tribes. (A tamga is an abstract seal or stamp used by Eurasian nomadic peoples).
Using radiocarbon dating of pieces of calcined coal, sheepskin, and horse bone excavated from the sarcophagus, it was estimated that the burial complex was built in the 8th century, during the late Second Ancient Turkic Qaghanate.
Professor Takashi OSAWA has been deciphering the runic text and discovered that the burial was for a Yabgu, a title of office in the early Turkic states, roughly equivalent to viceroy.
It was also found that the Yabgu became a Tölis-Shad (Royalty of the East), a commander in chief and highest administrative officer, in eastern Mongolia during the reign of Tengri Qaghan (734-741 AD).
These findings show that the site of Dongoin shiree steppe was a tribal centre of the eastern Turkic Qaghanate and reveals the power relationships of rulers in the east as well as the political and military relationships with Mongolian tribes of the region.
https://www.heritagedaily.com/2017/1...ongolia/117876
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That is what is said. Burned or buried with horses with body being laid down in the natural "sleeping" position. Where is proof that these are Türk burials?
By the way Türks perished before they could be Islamised. I guess Turkish school system does not teach that Türks were a separate el/bodun that perished, and directly link historical Türks to Anatolian Turks who also happen to call themselves Türk. Not even mentioning the fact that Oghuz/Toquz Oghuz/Sekiz Oghuz (natives of Mongolia) were rivals of Türks. I do not deny that some modern Turkic populations have small Türk layer springing from absorption of what was left of them. No modern Turkic population has folk memory of Türks. Wolf totem is a modern reinvented fashion that modern Turkic populations adopted in the 20th century. Ergenekon is a re-wrapped (stolen) Mongol (Genghis Khan's) myth first recorded by Rashid-al-Din.
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