Balto-Slavic, was it?

[Vlatko Vukovic]

up!

[Vlatko Vukovic]

Are Balts monophyletic group, or paraphyletic (phantom) ?

[Krivich]

Are Balts monophyletic group, or paraphyletic (phantom) ?

Both.
I think that our kinship dates back to the pre-Slavic era

[Vlatko Vukovic]

Both.
I think that our kinship dates back to the pre-Slavic era

It is most likely: If they are paraphyletic (phantom) then we talk about Balto-Slavic proto language, and if they are monophyletic, then we are talking just about Proto-Baltic.

[Rumata]

I think that Letto-Lithuanian Balts are swearing totally different

IIRC (I'm quite sure), in this video they swear with Russian words.

[Bosniensis]

It is same as you ask; Can we assume that Slavs are Iranic people?

That's all weird to me if you ask me.

Iranic and Indo-Iranic people.

Iranic people are mix of R1 and J2, one being Indo-Iranic while J2 being Iranic, am I right?

I've read a Book called Shahnameh where there is eternal struggle explained between "Steppe Div Army" and "Iranian Army and Hero Rostam"
they fought against some White Div to protect Iran if I remember, those must be those "Indo-Iranian" people... However they are not observed
as Iranian but rather a people who were in constant relations with Persian (IRAN) people. According to book they are enemies of Iranians.

So Scythians were not Iranic people, it's how WE call them Indo-Iranic people, but Shahnameh book did not considered them Iranian as well.

White Devil who was the Enemy of Rostam, Hero of Persians is an allegorical explanation for Scythian White people who could easily be Slavs.

[Vlatko Vukovic]

That's all weird to me if you ask me.

Iranic and Indo-Iranic people.

Iranic people are mix of R1 and J2, one being Indo-Iranic while J2 being Iranic, am I right?

I've read a Book called Shahnameh where there is eternal struggle explained between "Steppe Div Army" and "Iranian Army and Hero Rostam"
they fought against some White Div to protect Iran if I remember, those must be those "Indo-Iranian" people... However they are not observed
as Iranian but rather a people who were in constant relations with Persian (IRAN) people. According to book they are enemies of Iranians.

So Scythians were not Iranic people, it's how WE call them Indo-Iranic people, but Shahnameh book did not considered them Iranian as well.

White Devil who was the Enemy of Rostam, Hero of Persians is an allegorical explanation for Scythian White people who could easily be Slavs.

Yes, as i know, but, i don't get your point about Indo-Iranians.

[Dragoon]

That's all weird to me if you ask me.

Iranic and Indo-Iranic people.

Iranic people are mix of R1 and J2, one being Indo-Iranic while J2 being Iranic, am I right?

I've read a Book called Shahnameh where there is eternal struggle explained between "Steppe Div Army" and "Iranian Army and Hero Rostam"
they fought against some White Div to protect Iran if I remember, those must be those "Indo-Iranian" people... However they are not observed
as Iranian but rather a people who were in constant relations with Persian (IRAN) people. According to book they are enemies of Iranians.

So Scythians were not Iranic people, it's how WE call them Indo-Iranic people, but Shahnameh book did not considered them Iranian as well.

White Devil who was the Enemy of Rostam, Hero of Persians is an allegorical explanation for Scythian White people who could easily be Slavs.

You cant only use Haplogroups. They may show how much influence an invasion of males had on a new land or people. But what about the rest?

According to its findings, natives of Iran have a strange genetic composition.

Typically, an Iranian native’s genetic composition is 56 percent Arabian , 4 percent Eastern Africa, 2 percent Northern Africa, 4 percent Central Asia, 6 percent Asia Minor and 2 percent from Southern Europe and Southern Asia each (According to Geographic Project).

Regarding an Iranian native’s genetic makeup, Genographic Project has said:

‘This reference population is based on native Iranians. As some ancient populations migrated from Africa, they passed first through southwestern Asia en route to the rest of Eurasia. Some populations stayed in the Middle East and southwest Asia, over time developing unique genetic patterns. The large Arabian and Southern Asia components found in our reference Iranian population reflect these ancient patterns. The Asia Minor and Central Asia components likely arrived via the migrations of groups originating in those regions farther north, such as the Turks and Mongols. The Silk Road also may have served to disperse Asian genetic patterns farther south and west.’

http://realiran.org/national-geograp...rcent-arabian/

Modern Iranians genetically are therefore probably somewhat different from something 1000 or 2000 years ago.


Double checked the original source (perhaps it eddited later on)...

Iranian:

Southwest and Persian Gulf: 56
East Africa: 4
North Africa: 2
Central Asia: 4
Asia Minor: 6
South Europe: 2
South Asia: 24

This reference population is based on native Iranians. As some ancient populations migrated from Africa, they passed first through southwestern Asia en route to the rest of Eurasia. Some populations stayed in the Middle East and southwest Asia, over time developing unique genetic patterns. The large Arabian and Southern Asia components found in our reference Iranian population reflect these ancient patterns. The Asia Minor and Central Asia components likely arrived via the migrations of groups originating in those regions farther north, such as the Turks and Mongols. The Silk Road also may have served to disperse Asian genetic patterns farther south and west.

https://genographic.nationalgeograph...ions-next-gen/

[Dragoon]

Racially these groups (Slavic/Baltic/Sarmatians/Alans/Scythians/Iranians) were somewhat similar yet somewhat different.

Language may have adopted portions of one or another, spread by the expansions, and slowly changed, until it was harder to see the differences.

And Sarmatians / Scythians were somewhat tall, long hair, beards. Reddish hair.
Alans also possibly related were similar but yellowish hair.

Its too simplistic imo to say Slavs = Sarmatians / Scythian knowing it was a huge area, mixing with many groups, borrowing words, changing language.
On the other hand is there some Sarmatian/Scythian influence racially and linguistically probably...

Its just a guess though...

[Vlatko Vukovic]

Let's see the modern interpretations of linguists F. Kortlandt and Rick Derksen;

F. Kortlandt; "Though Prussian is undoubtedly closer to the East Baltic languages than to Slavic, the characteristic features of the Baltic languages seem to be either retentions or results of parallel development and cultural interaction. Thus I assume that Balto-Slavic split into three identifiable branches (East Baltic, West Baltic and Slavic), each of which followed its own course of development.

Derksen, Rick (2008), Etymological Dictionary of the Slavic Inherited Lexicon, p. 20, I am not convinced that it is justified to reconstruct a Proto-Baltic stage. The term Proto-Baltic is used for convenience’s sake.

If those interpretations are correct, then we have situation like this;

The common proto-language, let's call it "I" splitted into three branches;

a) Letto-Lithuanian (East Baltic)
b) Prussian (West Baltic)
c) the dialect which would later evolve to proto-Slavic. Alternatively could be called "south Baltic" but it depends on terminology.

So what is more correct, to call the proto-language proto-Baltic (as some Lithuanian and Latvian linguists have tendencies), or to call it proto-Balto-Slavic becouse it was only the proto-language and not the ethnicity and people were not aware in that time of any connections between them?

P.S Also it is useful to say that East Baltic was most likely closer to Slavic dialect (in original form) than to West Baltic, but the Iranian substratum transformed the Slavic dialect into totally different way.