List countries in East Asia by whether they are phenotypically closer to Japan or East Timor

[Tooting Carmen]

Imo:

Japan

Mongolia, North Korea, South Korea, China, Taiwan, Hong Kong, Macau, Singapore (they're mainly Chinese).

Intermediate

Vietnam, Thailand, Laos, Cambodia, Myanmar.

East Timor

Malaysia, Philippines, Indonesia, Brunei.

[zhaoyun]

I think Vietnam is more towards East Asia definitely.

[Tooting Carmen]

I think Vietnam is more towards East Asia definitely.

Do they really differ much from Thais and Cambodians?

[Joso]

I think Vietnam is more towards East Asia definitely.

Yes, a lot of viets looks like southern Chinese i've heard that a lot of southern Chinese have Viet admixture

[Thambi]

Vietnamese on average get half chinese on 23andme. Phenotypically many viets look chinese as well imo.

Also they do tend to cluster around southern chinese on gedmatch calcs.

[zhaoyun]

Yes, a lot of viets looks like southern Chinese i've heard that a lot of southern Chinese have Viet admixture

Actually the other way around. Many Viets have Southern Chinese admixture.

If you are talking about Austronesians in general, then yes, many of the original inhabitants of Southern China were Austronesian Tai Kadai peoples, over time, the modern Southern Chinese arose from intermixing between these natives who became sinicized, and intermarried with Han Chinese who migrated from the North.

[zhaoyun]

Do they really differ much from Thais and Cambodians?

Yes, they do. They are a lot more Sinid shifted.

This might seem confusing, but a lot of the Thais in Bangkok also have some Chinese blood, but the native Thais usually look quite different.

[Taiji]

I think Vietnam is more towards East Asia definitely.

Depends on which viets really. Tooting carmen was quite right about viets fitting into thais and cambodians. Being an austronesian people, they're actually closest to indonesians, filipinos and malays and further from Japan than the other 3. I've heard that many of the viet refugees are actually ethnic chinese or at least have partial ancestry to an ancestor further north. Don't follow the entertainment industry, they're not exactly representative. Most viets would kill to look more east asian.

However, in rural Vietnam (where most ethnic kinh are pure), these are typical native viets:



Practically the same as their austronesian brothers, the filipinos.


Compared to chinese:


Myanmar people are an outlier and quite unique. The ethnic majority, bamar, actually have a very high south asian genetic contribution which is common among transhimalayans albeit their's is a little higher. Meanwhile in the Karen, Chin and Kachin State, they're closer to northeast indians, nepalese mongols, yunnanese ethnic minorities and their appearance looks more similar to japanese/east asians.

Do they really differ much from Thais and Cambodians?

@zhaoyun From my experience, not too much. There are actually many thais that look quite east asian, and many viets that look filipino.

Historically, thais are a kra-dai people and trace their origins from what is now southern China. They also have relatives in Shan state in Myanmar and Assam in India among others. For example, from Shan state (the ancestral bloodline of the thais/laotians look like them)


Meanwhile if we go by language families, viets have an austro- tongue, meaning their ancestors were close to malays and filipinos. This is a native kinh.

This is a native kinh family


These are not ethnic kinh. They're ethnic hmong from Sapa who are heavily disadvantaged compared to ethnic kinh, suffering malnutrition, mistreatment and often kidnappings by local kinh viets. Ethnic kinh pretend and misrepresent minorities from Sapa as their own.

[zhaoyun]

Depends on which viets really. Tooting carmen was quite right about viets fitting into thais and cambodians. Being an austronesian people, they're actually closest to indonesians, filipinos and malays and further from Japan than the other 3. I've heard that many of the viet refugees are actually ethnic chinese or at least have partial ancestry to an ancestor further north. Don't follow the entertainment industry, they're not exactly representative. Most viets would kill to look more east asian.

However, in rural Vietnam (where most ethnic kinh are pure), these are typical native viets:



Practically the same as their austronesian brothers, the filipinos.


Compared to chinese:


Myanmar people are an outlier and quite unique. The ethnic majority, bamar, actually have a very high south asian genetic contribution which is common among transhimalayans albeit their's is a little higher. Meanwhile in the Karen, Chin and Kachin State, they're closer to northeast indians, nepalese mongols, yunnanese ethnic minorities and their appearance looks more similar to japanese/east asians.

@zhaoyun From my experience, not too much. There are actually many thais that look quite east asian, and many viets that look filipino.

Historically, thais are a kra-dai people and trace their origins from what is now southern China. They also have relatives in Shan state in Myanmar and Assam in India among others. For example, from Shan state (the ancestral bloodline of the thais/laotians look like them)


Meanwhile if we go by language families, viets have an austro- tongue, meaning their ancestors were close to malays and filipinos. This is a native kinh.

This is a native kinh family


These are not ethnic kinh. They're ethnic hmong from Sapa who are heavily disadvantaged compared to ethnic kinh, suffering malnutrition, mistreatment and often kidnappings by local kinh viets. Ethnic kinh pretend and misrepresent minorities from Sapa as their own.

FME Viets are a more Austronesian shifted version of the Cantonese. Northern Vietnamese in particular seem to be pretty close culturally to Guangdong/Guangxi regions. Their phenotype ranges quite a bit, some can be quite dark and pass for Cambodian, but many can also look pretty East Asian. Their culture is the most similar to East Asians among the Southeast Asians, which is why I think Vietnam will undoubtedly be the leading nation in SE Asia in 20-30 years from now.

[Taiji]

FME Viets are a more Austronesian shifted version of the Cantonese. Northern Vietnamese in particular seem to be pretty close culturally to Guangdong/Guangxi regions. Their phenotype ranges quite a bit, some can be quite dark and pass for Cambodian, but many can also look pretty East Asian. Their culture is the most similar to East Asians among the Southeast Asians, which is why I think Vietnam will undoubtedly be the leading nation in SE Asia in 20-30 years from now.

Perhaps they will. I've seen some really unscrupulous corruption in Vietnam as well as senseless violence which puts me into doubt they'd lead southeast asia anytime soon. There's literally no hope for the Philippines and Indonesia/Malaysia. Those countries have the advantage of a developed economy, stable borders and civil stability for ages and yet they're no leaders. Some would say they're even regressing. Let's see if viets follow the path of their austronesian brothers.

However, I do think that if Myanmar gets its act together and all the senseless civil wars within the country ceases, they'd be a strong contender as well.
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