Was the Apartheid regime really so uniquely evil as many people claimed?

[Tooting Carmen]

As someone on the Left myself, I do nevertheless like to question some left-wing orthodoxies. One of them was that the Apartheid regime was so exceptionally reprehensible and despicable that it had to be subject to a regime of sanctions, boycotts and isolation inflicted on virtually no other Government. Now, the fact that the Apartheid regime was racist, repressive and totalitarian is of course beyond doubt. However, even for the Black population, it is hard to argue that it was more brutal and repressive than kleptocratic tyrannies such as Duvalier's Haiti, Mobutu's Zaire, Idi Amin's Uganda, Mengistu's Ethiopia and Macias Nguema's Equatorial Guinea. The number of killings by the Apartheid regime is estimated to be around 2700 - as tragic as that is, those other dictatorships I listed (and no doubt others too) had death tolls in five or even six figures, quite apart from the fact that their corruption and mismanagement impoverished their nations' peoples far more than the Apartheid regime did. What's more, what about the discrimination against women, homosexuals and religious minorities found in countries such as Saudi Arabia, Iran, Sudan, Nigeria, Pakistan and even to some extent India? Why has that never been subject to the same scrutiny and censure? Likewise, even when discussing racism itself, why has there never been a boycott campaign launched against Australia, what with its White Australia policy, which was only abolished in 1973, and most of all the State-sponsored abduction and forced disappearance of thousands of Aboriginal children over several decades? In fact, the living standards of Aboriginals even today are estimated to be worse than any other indigenous group in the New World, including those of Amerindians in very poor countries like Guatemala and Bolivia. The reason I ask these questions is because, as I mentioned in an earlier thread of mine, I am seriously considering writing a book about the decline of South African rugby, and shall trace it back to the sanctions and isolation imposed on South Africa by the UN, especially when it came to sports.

[Gold-Shekel]

Unfair, yes, evil, no.

Yeah, sure, it sucked to be black during the apartheid but you still were safer than in most African countries, I mean it was during the same time as whacky people like Bokassa were in power.

[Wadaad]

Unfair, yes, evil, no.

Yeah, sure, it sucked to be black during the apartheid but you still were safer than in most African countries, I mean it was during the same time as whacky people like Bokassa were in power.

And currently Israeli Arabs have a high standard of living

But they are by all intents and purposes, second class citizens.

Its a matter of, do you want to live a good life, as official second class...or struggle but fully independent.

[Tooting Carmen]

Unfair, yes, evil, no.

Yeah, sure, it sucked to be black during the apartheid but you still were safer than in most African countries, I mean it was during the same time as whacky people like Bokassa were in power.

Which is precisely my point - the Black African dictatorships, in their outcomes even if not necessarily their ideologies, were often considerably worse than the Apartheid regime was, but were not subject to anything like the same criticism and censure. In fact, it is quite evident that the UN-led sanctions against SA were in no small measure an attempt by the USSR to curry favour with several African nations and gain them as allies. (Funny how many of the same people who rightly criticise the US embargo against Cuba for being vindictive, politically-motivated and hypocritical can't see the same about the Soviet-led sanctions against South Africa).

[Tooting Carmen]

And currently Israeli Arabs have a high standard of living

But they are by all intents and purposes, second class citizens.

Its a matter of, do you want to live a good life, as official second class...or struggle but fully independent.

Israeli Arabs are equal under the law, but heavily discriminated against in practice. However, Israel is far from being the only Middle Eastern country where racism is prevalent - Turkey, Syria, Iraq and Iran have all viciously persecuted Kurds and Assyrians, many Arab countries have a serious history of anti-Semitism, while South and Southeast Asians living in the Gulf Arab countries are treated appallingly.

[Dandelion]

Some Black South Africans even say living under Apartheid was better. However, during Apartheid the ones being considered too cooperative or even falsely accused of, would occasionally get brutally necklaced. Terrible shit. Nowadays I see just normal non-racist blacks get insulted by hardliners on YouTube comments and white South Africans play a 'turn the other cheek' approach out of necessity.

One thing's for sure. White South Africans are very patriotic. Many are staying even if when they see the country their ancestors helped build up deteriorate.

[Dandelion]

Israeli Arabs are equal under the law, but heavily discriminated against in practice. However, Israel is far from being the only Middle Eastern country where racism is prevalent - Turkey, Syria, Iraq and Iran have all viciously persecuted Kurds and Assyrians, many Arab countries have a serious history of anti-Semitism, while South and Southeast Asians living in the Gulf Arab countries are treated appallingly.

It's better being an Israeli Arab than a Black South African before 1994 for sure. But Israel will make sure they will never become a force to be reckoned with. But it's easier to treat a minority as equals over the overwhelming majority.

[Gold-Shekel]

And currently Israeli Arabs have a high standard of living

But they are by all intents and purposes, second class citizens.

Its a matter of, do you want to live a good life, as official second class...or struggle but fully independent.

Absolutely, but then it's better to be an Arab in Israël than a Palestinian in let's say Jordan and still be considered a refugee and be even less equal.

[Tooting Carmen]

Absolutely, but then it's better to be an Arab in Israël than a Palestinian in let's say Jordan and still be considered a refugee and be even less equal.

Yes, those who weep for the Palestinians often overlook the ludicrous way they are treated in countries like Jordan and Lebanon, where even fourth-generation ones still have to live in camps and are forbidden from entering most jobs.

[Gold-Shekel]

Yes, those who weep for the Palestinians often overlook the ludicrous way they are treated in countries like Jordan and Lebanon, where even fourth-generation ones still have to live in camps and are forbidden from entering most jobs.

I feel bad for the Palestinians because they have become a gimmick with which Arab nationalists can get some credibility, or Muslims in general. It's really a case of '' When in doubt, talk more about Palestine''