View Poll Results: Are Germans, Austrians & German speaking Swiss people ethnicaly the same?

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  • YES, they belong to the same ethnicity! Deutsch people!

    9 52.94%
  • NO! Just a seperate people who happen to speak the same language

    8 47.06%
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Thread: Are Germans, Austrians & German speaking Swiss people of the same ethnicity?

  1. #1
    Veteran Member Visitor_22's Avatar
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    Default Are Germans, Austrians & German speaking Swiss people of the same ethnicity?

    Are Germans, Austrians & german speaking Swiss people of the same ethnicity?


    All of them call their mother tongue as 'Deutsch'. So do they belong to the same ethnicity or just seperate people who speak common language?





  2. #2
    Legio I Minervia ľ Slayer of barbarians
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    I remember to have read many complains and fights between Austrians and Germans about this case especially on Wikipedia articles. The Austrians always defend Mozart who is often claimed by the Germans. I also think Austrians viewed German occupation in their history as foreigner.

    Not to mention they have separate articles on Wikipedia.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Germans

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Austrians

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    Veteran Member Visitor_22's Avatar
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    Bump!

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    Yes, but not all Swiss are German some are French, some are Italian
    My genetic results
    1 50% Azeri_Dagestan +50% BedouinA @ 2.879975


    One nation and one destiny



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    Basically, but different nationalities and identities.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Visitor_22 View Post
    Are Germans, Austrians & german speaking Swiss people of the same ethnicity?


    All of them call their mother tongue as 'Deutsch'. So do they belong to the same ethnicity or just seperate people who speak common language?


    What's an ethnicity for you ? Race or cultural ?

  7. #7
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    I think all basically Germanics including the Swiss Germans, however they all had some variation in ethnic genetic admixtures depending on their regions.
    My Heritage
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    I don't think so. Austrians seem more swarthy.
    This Austrian considered as the most attractive man in Sweden (note he can pass as Middle Eastern):
    Last edited by Kukushka; 07-22-2018 at 09:13 AM.

  9. #9
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    Austrians and Bavarian/South Germans are very similiar.

  10. #10
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    Membership of an ethnic group tends to be defined by a shared cultural tradition, ancestry and physical appearance, history, language and dialect, mythology and religion, art, cuisine and dressing style. The Germans, Austrians and the Swiss (Germans) share all of those traits and while there are regional cultural and linguistic differences between these countries, the same can be said of any other subset of Germans. There are differences between the German Germans and the ethnic German diaspora, as well as between different regions within Germany itself, e.g. Bavaria vs. Schleswig-Holstein. In fact, a Bavarian will typically feel closer to his Austrian neighbor than he would to a Prussian. A Swabian will have more in common culturally with someone from Vorarlberg in Austria, someone from Switzerland, Liechtenstein or Alsace.

    Historically, there has been a sentiment of Germanhood among all three nations, though the degree of this has varied overtime. Their history is however undeniably intertwined. Switzerland was part of the Holy Roman Empire together with Germany and Austria during the Middle Ages. The counts of Habsburg, later to become famous as German and then Austrian emperors actually originated from northern Switzerland. Unfortunately, nowadays denial of their Germanness has become a part of politically correct, local "patriotism". Pan-Germanism is often associated with NS, though its origins well predate it.

    Here is an article in German language about Austrian national identity. Only about 7% of the population questions the validity/concept of an Austrian nation nowadays, compared with 47% in 1956. The new feeling of a nation was consolidated in the late 60s, early 70s. Of course the aforementioned association of Pan-Germanism with NS created negative connotations in the minds of generations old and new, and later lead to feelings of dissociation and even contempt. Historians and politicians created the post-war idea of a victim nation, Austria having been regarded as "Hitler's first victim". This was recently disputed by the president, who openly declared that "we welcomed Hitler", what is of course historically correct. German identity in Austria however predates NS and the Hitler era by centuries and Austria actually has a lengthier history of German identity than it does of an Austrian one. While the Austrian territory had existed in one form or another for over 700 years within the Holy Roman Empire and later the German Confederation, its only unifying force had been the Habsburgs. Apart from being German inhabited, these Lands had no common "Austrian" identity and there had never been an Austrian state before the First Austrian Republic. Pan-Germanism's origins began with the birth of Romantic nationalism during the Napoleonic Wars, with Friedrich Ludwig Jahn and Ernst Moritz Arndt being early proponents of the current. The "German Question" was a debate in the 19th century, especially during the Revolutions of 1848, over the best way to achieve the unification of Germany. The 1848 German revolutionaries were initially advocates of a Greater Germany (Gro▀deutschland) seeking to unite all German-speaking people in Europe.

    1848 German revolutionaries flying the German flag in Vienna:



    The Deutschlandlied, written in 1841 by Hoffmann von Fallersleben, defines Deutschland in its first stanza as reaching "From the Meuse to the Memel / From the Adige to the Belt", i.e. as including East Prussia and South Tyrol. Although Bismarck's unification shut out the Austrians from his Kleindeutschland state, integrating the Austrian Germans nevertheless remained a strong desire for many people of Germany and Austria alike.

    In Habsburg Austria-Hungary, Deutsch÷sterreich ("German-Austria") was an unofficial term for the areas of the empire inhabited by Austrian Germans. The term would be later used to represent the Republic of German-Austria -- (Republik) Deutsch÷sterreich or Deutsch-Ísterreich -- created following World War I as the initial rump state for areas with a predominantly German-speaking population within what had been the Austro-Hungarian Empire. Directions among the largest German parties varied: German Nationalists wanted a constitutional monarchy of free nations; Christian Socialists wanted to maintain monarchy and a federation of nations; Social Democrats wanted a republic that would either be a part or federation of nations or join Germany. A Provisional National Assembly made of party representatives proclaimed that "the German people in Austria are resolved to determine their own future political organization to form an independent German-Austrian state, and to regulate their relations with other nations through free agreements with them". The Provisional Assembly would later take steps in a direction of union with Germany, starting with a resolution that declared that "German-Austria is a constituent part of the German Republic. Special laws regulate the participation of German-Austria in the legislation and administration of the German Republic as well as the extension of the area of validity of the laws and institutions of the German Republic to German-Austria." This would become an article or the new constitution. Their anthem also alluded to their German origins:



    There was even an appeal under Wilsonian doctrine of self-determination to accept a union with Germany. The Greater German People's Party (Gro▀deutsche Volkspartei, GDVP) also campaigned for a union and promoted a common, shared German identity. A more detailed reading on the matter can be found in the book Post-war German-Austrian Relations: The Anschluss Movement, 1918-1936.

    By the 1920s, Austria's government was dominated by the anti-Anschluss Christian Social Party and this coupled with the opposition of the Western Allies and the Treaty of Saint Germain crippled union attempts and lead to a fail. The state changed its name to the "Republic of Austria" and also lost ethnic German areas/enclaves such as the Sudetenland, German Bohemia, South Tyrol and southern Carinthia and Styria. After a couple of decades of struggle, the self-determination of the people of Austria lead to and was ratified as the Anschlu▀. The Anschlu▀ was certainly a unique moment in Austrian history, and at its time was not viewed as an annexation as it was the result of the will of the people expressed via a referendum and the German troops were met with enthusiasm rather than resistance. And while the Anschlu▀ has its historical significance, identifying Pan-Germanism and Pan-German sentiment as a "Nazi" thing is basically discarding previous centuries of German history and identity. Due to its associations with the NS regime, Pan-Germanism in Austria has basically died out after the end of the Second World War. After 1945, the German national camp was revived in the Federation of Independents (Verband der Unabhńngigen), the early Freedom Party of Austria and affiliated student organizations, however the majority of the political camp opposed the idea of a "Greater Germany" for being "anachronistic" and because they wanted to redeem themselves via the policies of denazification. Today it remains a nostalgic idea among about 17% of the FPÍ, some student fraternities (Burschenschaften) and there have been a few contemporary Austrians who displayed Pan-German sentiment, starting with Haider -- but who later toned this idea down in order to get more votes --, Andreas M÷lzer and Martin Graf (who has Sudeten-German ancestry), who referred to themselves as Kulturdeutsche ("cultural Germans"), and stressed the importance of their identity as ethnic Germans, in contrast to the distinct Austrian national identity. There was a controversy in 2006 when FPÍ members of parliament wore blue cornflowers in their buttonholes, along with ribbons in Austria's national colours (red and white), during the initial meeting of the National Council. This caused controversy, as the media interpreted the flower as a former Nazi symbol. The flower however is a symbol of the Pan-German movement in Austria.



    Switzerland is a somewhat more peculiar case and in certain ways very different from other German states in history. The Swiss German carry culturally a German identity which comes naturally to them, however independence and neutrality have been engraved in their national character for centuries. They never really cared for being part of the empowerment game, but just wanted to be left to themselves. As their saint Nicholas of FlŘe put it, they "don't get involved in other people's affairs". This poster, for example, illustrates this principle. It reads, ''Are Swiss sons to be sacrificed in other people's affairs?''



    So they defeated the Habsburg army and gradually convinced the powerful players around them that they weren't any threat and that they only wished to be left in peace. In return, they wouldn't attack or side with anyone, and would create a defense strong enough to deter others from using their country as a shortcut for their military operations. Based on this, the doctrine of neutrality developed, which proved as useful for the Swiss as it did to the other European forces, and has been since inseparably linked to their nation. Even when German nationalism was at its height, at the end of the 19th and the turn of the 20th century, only a handful of Swiss wanted to join Germany. Probably as many Austrians wanted to join Hitler's German Reich as Swiss did not. Not because they had a dislike for Hitler, but because the idea of independence and neutrality remained so deeply entrenched in their heads. Overtime, the Swiss have gained a unique identity, like the Dutch. However, in an ethnic sense, there is no such thing as a "Swiss" - one is either German, Italian, French or Romansh.

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