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Phenotypical observations at local Greek festival...
of the people I spoke to and KNOW to be Greek.
There are a lot of Russians, Ukrainians, other Slavs, and even Lebanese Greek Orthodox people who attend church at the location where the festival was held, so I made sure to only base these observations on:
1. people I spoke to and know to be Greek -- people were very willing to discuss their culture and origins with anyone who asked, and
2. people I heard speaking Greek or having a Greek accent in English (I can easily differentiate these from Slavic languages or Arabic).
I noticed, above all, a significant difference in appearance between the women and the men. I am returning today to get food so I will look around again but this is what I noticed..
- Roughly half of the people could pass anywhere in Italy south of Rome, or as common Italian Americans,
- About 10%, mostly women, could pass in West Asia and similar to Sicilians and Jews who also could pass there,
- Most of the remainder looked Balkan and showed visible Eastern European influences, but only a small minority looked wholesale "Slavic."
1. Nearly everyone had some degree of Mediterranean phenotypical influence, whether Pontid or Gracile Med. Many people actually did look Sicilian, more than in other years.
Among the people I met from the islands and Laconia, of which there were a significant number of people of Laconian origins (they say "Sparta" area which I presume is the same), the typical look was Dinaro-Med, Gracile Med, and Dinaro-Pontid. Among islanders, they looked very similar to Italian Americans and had all of the same types: Gracile Med, Dinarid, Dinaro-Med, Alpine-Med, and Med with Armenoid influence.
There were also a lot of people, probably about half, who would blend into any part of Italy south of Rome, and just looked regular 'Italian' not even specifically Sicilian. There were also people who I thought would pass best in Iberia or who looked generically Western European.
2. A significant portion of people looked more Balkan, especially the men.
For whatever reason I left with the impression that a lot of the women I saw looked more like southern Italians, but this was not true of a significant portion of the men. Many of the men were tall, with squarish heads, flat occiput, and a straight nose. The people from different parts of the mainland, especially the men, still looked Mediterranean, but in a way more similar to their northern neighbors. Even among those who were darker, the overall "vibe" in the eyes and facial structure was recognizably Eastern European. The men had much more robust features than the women, and less prominent noses. There were some women who also looked more Balkan but it was not as common as among the men.
3. West Asian/Middle Eastern phenotypes were mostly restricted to a minority of women, probably 1 in 10 would pass.
With the exception of a few individual men, I only noticed phenotypes I perceived as Middle Eastern among women. Some women had very dark, round eyes and prominent noses, and thick wavy hair. I would estimate 1 in 10 women I saw, and maybe 1 in 20 men, could pass as West Asian. Some of them did look similar to some Sicilians and Jews who also would be taken for West Asian, but others I just could not place their look in any particular Middle Eastern country, other than an overall sense that their appearance would pass in the general region.
4. While Eastern European influence was present in many people, only about 1 in 20 people looked wholesale "Slavic" and passable in Northeast Europe.
Certainly a few individuals scattered about could have easily passed in Russia, Poland, Ukraine and so on but it was not the majority. I would estimate 1 in 20 people had sufficient Gorid, North Pontid, or East Nordid type influences to be able to pass in NE Europe.
5. There was more phenotypical similarity to Albanians than what is acknowledged on this forum.
I did see many people scattered about who looked stereotypically Albanian, despite the claim on this forum that they can almost always be distinguished.
A minority of people could have passed as part Native American or mixed with East Asian.
There was a man with his two children who I saw and assumed was Peruvian, but then I heard him speak Greek. It was definitely not Spanish, as I understood none of it. There were also some women who could have passed as in the 25-50% Amerindian range among Mexican Americans.
7. A lot of women, particularly middle aged, had dyed hair of an orange-blonde "caramel" color and it greatly contrasted with their coloring.
There was a very specific look going on with many of the middle aged women -- caramel blonde hair, very tan, dark brown eyes, and excessive makeup, dressed significantly younger than their age and wearing very high heels. I was surprised because never have I seen so many women in their 50s and 60s dressed like 20 year olds with clearly dyed hair. My cousin did say this is true in Sicily also, but I had not seen it personally.
8. Greek accents in English, as well as the Greek language itself, to someone who did not know it would be mistaken for Spanish.
If I didn't know Spanish, I would definitely think Greek was Spanish if I heard it. The intonation is almost exactly the same, and the accent in English is close enough it could be mistaken. Not so much for Mexican or Caribbean Spanish, but for some South American dialects.
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Originally Posted by arkas
Türkiye
United States
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