BULGARS

[PAGANE]

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[Chelubey]

How are Tatars descendants of Bulgars when they came with the Mongols?

This is the stupidest hypothesis that I have heard, which has no archaeological, historical, genetic or linguistic support.
According to it, the Mongol-speaking pagan Mongols brought the Kipchak language to the Volga region, converted to Islam and began to bury their dead as the Volga Bulgarians, while the Chuvashs abandoned Islam, Arabic script and Bulgars' funeral rites(90%+ of Arabic borrowings in the Chuvash language have a Tatar source) ...
https://ru.wikipedia.org/wiki/%D0%91...#%D0%9F%D0%BE% D0% B3% D1% 80% D0% B5% D0% B1% D0% B0% D0% BB% D1% 8C% D0% BD% D1% 8B% D0% B9_% D0% BE% D0% B1% D1% 80% D1% 8F% D0% B4

Further, this custom of burying in the sidewall began to dominate among the Volga Bulgars, judging by the archaeological materials, and to this day the Tatars, as well as the Bashkirs, practice sidewall graves.

https://ru.wikipedia.org/wiki/%D0%92...1%8F_%D0%91%D1 % 83% D0% BB% D0% B3% D0% B0% D1% 80% D0% B8% D1% 8F

With the adoption of Islam, in 922(In Volga Bulgaria), the spread of the Arabic script begins. Islam was a religion with a developed writing system.

Why are haplogroups like E and J2 in that region? Let's check a map about the haplogroups E1b and J2b according to Eupedia :

This Caucasian-Balkan admixture was obtained by the ancient Bulgars in the northern Black Sea region (and it is also reflected in the genetics of the Tatars).
But this is not the original proto-Bulgarian genetics.

[-Invictus-]

This is the stupidest hypothesis that I have heard, which has no archaeological, historical, genetic or linguistic support.
According to it, the Mongol-speaking pagan Mongols brought the Kipchak language to the Volga region, converted to Islam and began to bury their dead as the Volga Bulgarians, while the Chuvashs abandoned Islam, Arabic script and Bulgars' funeral rites(90%+ of Arabic borrowings in the Chuvash language have a Tatar source) ...
https://ru.wikipedia.org/wiki/%D0%91...#%D0%9F%D0%BE% D0% B3% D1% 80% D0% B5% D0% B1% D0% B0% D0% BB% D1% 8C% D0% BD% D1% 8B% D0% B9_% D0% BE% D0% B1% D1% 80% D1% 8F% D0% B4

I'm talking about the actual Tatars. Not the fake Tatars called like that by the Russians in 19th century.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mongol_Empire

"The Mongolian plateau was occupied mainly by five powerful tribal confederations (khanlig): Keraites, Khamag Mongol, Naiman, Mergid, and Tatar. "

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tatar_confederation



"Their name Tatar was used by Russians and Europeans to denote Mongols as well as Turkic peoples under Mongol rule, especially in the Golden Horde."

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mongol...Volga_Bulgaria

"Volga Bulgaria's Muslim community preferred to call themselves Muslims (Möselmannar), but used the word Bulghar to distinguish themselves from nomadic Muslim Kipchaks. They did not call themselves Tatars until the 19th century."

https://ru.wikipedia.org/wiki/%D0%92...1%8F_%D0%91%D1 % 83% D0% BB% D0% B3% D0% B0% D1% 80% D0% B8% D1% 8F

This Caucasian-Balkan admixture was obtained by the ancient Bulgars in the northern Black Sea region (and it is also reflected in the genetics of the Tatars).
But this is not the original proto-Bulgarian genetics.

Or maybe the Bulgars were a mixed tribal confederation that included these elements? As you can see there is a good amount of evidence that points to a significant Iranic origin of the Bulgars, of course coupled with the Turkic culture and most likely admixture they carried. They were first documented in Europe in 480. The Bulgars who created my country did it in 681. 200 years of being between the Pannonian basin and the northern parts of the Black sea surely changed them genetically. Also Turkic language doesn't mean that they were all haplogroups Q and C. Southern Turks in Central Asia have significant amount of J, because they merged with/conquered Iranic people.