Examples of wars with no real "good side" and "bad side"

[Colonel Frank Grimes]

I seem to recall reading somewhere that a lot of the atrocities committed by the left during the war (in particular those directed towards the clergy) were in fact committed by Soviet NKVD agents in Spain, and not so much by Spanish anarchists and the like.

I know Soviet agents played a role with influencing the Spanish Communists but they had no control over the Anarchists and it was the Anarchists who had a long history of assassinating politicians and clergy since the late 19th century.

[Cristiano viejo]

I can easily say the Republican government weren't behind the burning of churches because there is not only no evidence for it but there is evidence of them having difficulties with the Communists and Anarchists.

You can say what you want but assume people will call you a liar.

And yes I can say the Franco regime played a role in the kidnapping of infants because we're speaking of a few hundred of thousands over years and targeting Republican families only and given to families that supported Franco's rebellion and rule. You can't have a few hundred of thousands of infants stolen from their biological parents and not be aware of it. It also doesn't help that the government promoted it along side its major supporter: the Catholic Church.

That is like saying Franco was behind pederasty cases. You are really retard.

My family left Spain because it was an economic shithole thanks to Franco's ignorance of economics.

What are you talking, liar? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spanish_miracle

Btw, have you been to a local mosque to give thanks to the Moorish troops? Without them those early military successes that were so crucial in getting Franco support from Spaniards who were on the fence on whether they should throw their lot with him wouldn't have occurred.

A tough pill to swallow, eh? Franco allowing Moorish troops to commit war crimes against his own countrymen.

haha, yeah, for sure Franco would have not won the war if not because these super-small Moorish troops

[Colonel Frank Grimes]

You can say what you want but assume people will call you a liar.

People can call me a liar but I have the facts.

That is like saying Franco was behind pederasty cases. You are really retard.

I think the retard is the person who ignores that the state has birth certificates written out for newborns. It is literally impossible for bureaucrats to not be aware that the church was kidnapping a few hundred thousand infants from Republican families and giving them to supporters of Franco when they were the ones creating false birth certificates and it's too large of a scale for high ranking officials to not know. This was done across the country. It wasn't a few rogue bureaucrats. We're not speaking of a few hundred people here.

What are you talking, liar? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spanish_miracle

The Spanish Miracle was a consequence of the US government forcing Franco's hand to open up Spain's market or he would not get financial aid for being an ally against the Soviet Union. Does your wiki article say that? And even then the Spanish economy was shit. There was large scale immigration from Spain the 60s to France, Germany, Venezuela, etc.

haha, yeah, for sure Franco would have not won the war if not because these super-small Moorish troops

You're clearly ignorant of the Spanish Civil War. Does the word 'shock troops' mean anything to you? Do you even know what Franco said of them?

Btw, as someone who is a big fan of Franco show some respect to the Moorish troops he unleashed on the Spanish community.

[Cristiano viejo]

People can call me a liar but I have the facts.

No, you dont it.

I think the retard is the person who ignores that the state has birth certificates written out for newborns. It is literally impossible for bureaucrats to not be aware that the church was kidnapping a few hundred thousand infants from Republican families and giving them to supporters of Franco when they were the ones creating false birth certificates and it's too large of a scale for high ranking officials to not know. This was done across the country. It wasn't a few rogue bureaucrats. We're not speaking of a few hundred people here.

Yeah, sure. And bureaucrats also knew the pederasty cases within the church, of course
Stop with this nonsense. Kidnapping of childs was a particular matter.

The Spanish Miracle was a consequence of the US government forcing Franco's hand to open up Spain's market or he would not get financial aid for being an ally against the Soviet Union. Does your wiki article say that? And even then the Spanish economy was shit. There was large scale immigration from Spain the 60s to France, Germany, Venezuela, etc.

Forcing Franco to open the Spanish market?? forcing?? do you know per chance that Spain was suffering an international blockade since 40s??

You're clearly ignorant of the Spanish Civil War. Does the word 'shock troops' mean anything to you? Do you even know what Franco said of them?

Btw, as someone who is a big fan of Franco show some respect to the Moorish troops he unleashed on the Spanish community.

[Stratagos]

"Franco did not rebel against the republic, but against the rabble that had seized it." Manuel Azaña: was the second Prime Minister of the Second Spanish Republic (1931–1933), and later served again as Prime Minister (1936), and then as the second and last President of the Republic (1936–1939).

[RandomGuy20]

No war ever had a "good" or "bad" side

Too right.

[Pacific Highlander]

Both World Wars.

[Jana]

One of the common beliefs in the modern era is that wars always have to have the "good guys" and the "bad guys". But is this so? Quite apart from the rather obvious fact that all sides in wars commit often unspeakable atrocities, there are also times when the ideologies, beliefs and drivers of two opposing sides in a war may well be as bad as each other. Some possible examples:

(1) Spanish Civil War 1936-39

Contrary to the belief held by many people on the Left (and even some people on the Right), this wasn't a war between "democracy" and "fascism", but between two sets of fanatics and bigots. Long before Franco's forces launched their invasion from Northern Morocco, the Spanish Republican Government was regularly burning down churches (sometimes during Masses and even baptisms), as well as assassinating priests, businesspeople and others regarded as "bourgeois reactionaries". Of course these atrocities intensified even further during the war. All the same, one shouldn't underestimate how ruthless and brutal the Nationalists were too, both during the War and especially in the earlier years of Franco's dictatorship, quite apart from the extremely authoritarian policies and way of life imposed on the country by the regime.

(2) Balkan Wars 1991-99

The truth is that the Western media and politicians frequently overstated Serb atrocities, while downplaying or even totally ignoring Muslim and Croat ones. It was a war between several mutually hostile ethnic groups, and the plan for a "Greater Serbia" was only one albeit important part of it. Milosevic and Tudjman were pretty much of the same mold. Large scale rape, murder and ethnic cleansing were perpetrated by all sides in the conflict. Indeed, the US assisted Croatia in 1995 through Operation Desert Storm, which resulted in the ethnic cleansing of several thousands of Bosnian Serbs, as well as helping put the KLA into power in Kosovo, who promptly targeted Serbs and Gypsies.

(3) Iraq-Iran War 1980-89

One of the few sensible things Henry Kissinger ever said was "it's a shame both sides can't lose!" While Saddam's Iraq was the original aggressor and invader, principally to grab its hands on the extensive oilfields in Western Iran, it is hard to sympathise with the Ayatollah Khomeini's Islamist regime, which eventually decided to counter-invade Iraq and called for the Islamic Revolution to spread there and elsewhere in the Middle East.

Absolute revisionist bullshit.

Operation Storm ethnic cleansing ? Man, Serbs evacuated their civilians themself after Years of terrorism and completely ethnicaly cleansing the region from Croats in their own country.

Milosevic and Tudjman the same ?

Tell me, which Chetnik portal you read?

Not suprising since British pigs supported Serb Imperialism since treaty of Versailles.

[Smeagol]

Franco's side were the good guys.

[Slavic Italian]

One of the common beliefs in the modern era is that wars always have to have the "good guys" and the "bad guys". But is this so? Quite apart from the rather obvious fact that all sides in wars commit often unspeakable atrocities, there are also times when the ideologies, beliefs and drivers of two opposing sides in a war may well be as bad as each other. Some possible examples:

(1) Spanish Civil War 1936-39

Contrary to the belief held by many people on the Left (and even some people on the Right), this wasn't a war between "democracy" and "fascism", but between two sets of fanatics and bigots. Long before Franco's forces launched their invasion from Northern Morocco, the Spanish Republican Government was regularly burning down churches (sometimes during Masses and even baptisms), as well as assassinating priests, businesspeople and others regarded as "bourgeois reactionaries". Of course these atrocities intensified even further during the war. All the same, one shouldn't underestimate how ruthless and brutal the Nationalists were too, both during the War and especially in the earlier years of Franco's dictatorship, quite apart from the extremely authoritarian policies and way of life imposed on the country by the regime.

(2) Balkan Wars 1991-99

The truth is that the Western media and politicians frequently overstated Serb atrocities, while downplaying or even totally ignoring Muslim and Croat ones. It was a war between several mutually hostile ethnic groups, and the plan for a "Greater Serbia" was only one albeit important part of it. Milosevic and Tudjman were pretty much of the same mold. Large scale rape, murder and ethnic cleansing were perpetrated by all sides in the conflict. Indeed, the US assisted Croatia in 1995 through Operation Desert Storm, which resulted in the ethnic cleansing of several thousands of Bosnian Serbs, as well as helping put the KLA into power in Kosovo, who promptly targeted Serbs and Gypsies.

(3) Iraq-Iran War 1980-89

One of the few sensible things Henry Kissinger ever said was "it's a shame both sides can't lose!" While Saddam's Iraq was the original aggressor and invader, principally to grab its hands on the extensive oilfields in Western Iran, it is hard to sympathise with the Ayatollah Khomeini's Islamist regime, which eventually decided to counter-invade Iraq and called for the Islamic Revolution to spread there and elsewhere in the Middle East.

You think it was ok for Iraq to invade Iran and use chemical weapons? This is all poorly written. For example.....Indeed, the US assisted Croatia in 1995 through Operation Desert Storm, which resulted in the ethnic cleansing of several thousands of Bosnian Serbs, as well as helping put the KLA into power in Kosovo, who promptly targeted Serbs and Gypsies. Desert Storm had nothing to do with Croatia.