Do NE Euro Slavs consider Balkanites to be true Slavs?

[lumas]

Found some of the most numerous Albanian lineages in Iron Age Albania, any theory about Albanian originating East of the West Balkans need to explain why these lineages peak in Albanians. You can't, you have no arguments, Kosovo was Illyrian territory, should be no E-V13 there either, just J2b2 or R1b. You are just some Roman transplants like these Croats.

The strongest evidence, however, comes not from the meaning of the proper names (which is always open to doubt) but from their structure. Most Illyrian names are composed of a single unit; many Thracian ones are made of two units joined together. Several Thracian place-names end in -para, for example, which is thought to mean 'ford', or -diza, which is thought to mean 'fortress'. Thus in the territory of the Bessi, a well-known Thracian tribe, we have the town of Bessapara, 'ford of the Bessi'. The structure here is the same as in many European languages: thus the 'town of Peter' can be called Peterborough, Petrograd, Petersburg, Pierreville, and so on. But the crucial fact is that this structure is impossible in Albanian, which can only say 'Qytet i Pjetrit', not 'Pjeterqytet'. If para were the Albanian for 'ford', then the place-name would have to be 'Para e Besseve'; this might be reduced in time to something like 'Parabessa', but it could never become 'Bessapara'. And what is at stake here is not some superficial feature of the language, which might easily change over time, but a profound structural principle. This is one of the strongest available arguments to show that Albanian cannot have developed out of Thracian.

And in any case, it is increasingly apparent that the whole satem/centum classification system does not correspond to the fundamental distinguishing features of the Indo-European languages: it may be the linguists' equivalent of one of those classifications of mammals by eighteenth-century biologists, which modern scientists have had to discard. [46] Another technical (and much more speculative) argument for identifying early Albanian with Thracian was put forward by the Bulgarian linguist Georgiev, who divided Thracian into two languages, one north-western, the other south-eastern, and argued on the basis of consonantal changes that Albanian must have come from the north-western one. But his arguments (at least in relation to the supposed Albanian connection) have been thoroughly dismantled by other scholars.

''Albanian does preserve a very small quantity of borrowings from ancient Greek;see Thumb, 'Altgriechische Elemente'; Jokl, 'Altmakedonisch'; Cabej, 'Zur Charakteristik', p.182. This low level of borrowings from Greek is a further argument against the identification of Albanians with Bessi, part of whose tribal territory was Hellenized ''

Kosovo: A Short History - Noel Malcolm
p.13: Philippide, Originea Rominilor, vol. 1, pp.70-2; Papazoglu, 'Les Royaumes', pp.193-5
Velkov, 'La Thrace', p.188.

- Malcolm



It is pretty much game over. Finished. It was fun while it lasted.

[lumas]

Modern Greeks have E-V13 too but we know Ancient Greeks weren't E-V13:







Just like we know Illyrians/Albanians weren't E-V13 but J-L283, R1b-Z2103, R1b-PF7563 all found in the same site and peak in Albanians today.



You're the ones who need to prove otherwise. Not pull theories out of your ass.

[catgeorge]

Modern Greeks have E-V13 too but we know Ancient Greeks weren't E-V13:







Just like we know Illyrians/Albanians weren't E-V13 but J-L283, R1b-Z2103, R1b-PF7563 all found in the same site and peak in Albanians today.



You're the ones who need to prove otherwise. Not pull theories out of your ass.

Ancient Greeks werent EV-13 - mate you need to stop the drugs.

[catgeorge]

I can only handle so much stupidity

https://bmcecolevol.biomedcentral.co...471-2148-11-69

Roy J King, Julie Di Cristofaro, Anastasia Kouvatsi, Costas Triantaphyllidis, Walter Scheidel, Natalie M Myres, Alice A Lin, Alexandre Eissautier, Michael Mitchell, Didier Binder, Ornella Semino, Andrea Novelletto, Peter A Underhill & Jacques Chiaron

Background
The process of Greek colonization of the central and western Mediterranean during the Archaic and Classical Eras has been understudied from the perspective of population genetics. To investigate the Y chromosomal demography of Greek colonization in the western Mediterranean, Y-chromosome data consisting of 29 YSNPs and 37 YSTRs were compared from 51 subjects from Provence, 58 subjects from Smyrna and 31 subjects whose paternal ancestry derives from Asia Minor Phokaia, the ancestral embarkation port to the 6th century BCE Greek colonies of Massalia (Marseilles) and Alalie (Aleria, Corsica).

Results
19% of the Phokaian and 12% of the Smyrnian representatives were derived for haplogroup E-V13, characteristic of the Greek and Balkan mainland, while 4% of the Provencal, 4.6% of East Corsican and 1.6% of West Corsican samples were derived for E-V13. An admixture analysis estimated that 17% of the Y-chromosomes of Provence may be attributed to Greek colonization. Using the following putative Neolithic Anatolian lineages: J2a-DYS445 = 6, G2a-M406 and J2a1b1-M92, the data predict a 0% Neolithic contribution to Provence from Anatolia. Estimates of colonial Greek vs. indigenous Celto-Ligurian demography predict a maximum of a 10% Greek contribution, suggesting a Greek male elite-dominant input into the Iron Age Provence population.

Conclusions
Given the origin of viniculture in Provence is ascribed to Massalia, these results suggest that E-V13 may trace the demographic and socio-cultural impact of Greek colonization in Mediterranean Europe, a contribution that appears to be considerably larger than that of a Neolithic pioneer colonization

[kingmob]

I can only handle so much stupidity

This 2011 study you linked refers to modern sampling, .

Talking about stupidity, nice self own.


How does this sampling prove anything about ancient Greeks and E-V13:

"Our population samples included a total of 89 male subjects, currently living in Greece, who trace their grand-paternal ancestry to either the area near Phokaia (n = 31) or Smyrna (n = 58) prior to the 1923 Exchange of Lausanne."

[catgeorge]

This 2011 study you linked refers to modern sampling, .

Talking about stupidity, nice self own.


How does this sampling prove anything about ancient Greeks and E-V13:

"Our population samples included a total of 89 male subjects, currently living in Greece, who trace their grand-paternal ancestry to either the area near Phokaia (n = 31) or Smyrna (n = 58) prior to the 1923 Exchange of Lausanne."

Another that has escaped the mental asylum.

[kingmob]

Another that has escaped the mental asylum.

Peak of Karakachan intelligence, everybody.

What else is there to say.

[lumas]

We don't need Illyrian E-V13 you Croat troll




We already got enough Illyrian lineages. E-V13 is your main Paleo-Balkan lineage and there is certainly nothing that suggests it is a proto-Albanian marker. Just some theory you invented in your own head you nut case.