The race of Southern Italians and Sicilians...

[Grace O'Malley]

I define white european as those people who carry genetic markers originating in and unique to (in a statistical sense) the European continent. If you have white genetic (min 90%), european identity, if you look like a white european than you are european.

All Europeans are a mixture of Early European Farmers, European Hunter Gatherers, Ancestral North Eurasian and Caucasus Hunter Gatherer in various amounts. You would have to argue about what is "white genetic"? What does that mean exactly? I just prefer to use the term European instead of white because people have different views on what that means. If you look at Europe for instance it just has clines depending on your geographic location. European means people that are from the European geographic region. We are all Europeans if we are from the landmass that is defined as Europe.

[Krivich]

All Europeans are a mixture of Early European Farmers, European Hunter Gatherers, Ancestral North Eurasian and Caucasus Hunter Gatherer in various amounts. You would have to argue about what is "white genetic"? What does that mean exactly? I just prefer to use the term European instead of white because people have different views on what that means. If you look at Europe for instance it just has clines depending on your geographic location. European means people that are from the European geographic region. We are all Europeans if we are from the landmass that is defined as Europe.

The ANE(Ancestral North Eurasian) component contains Siberia in appreciable quantities. This is a hybrid Eurasian component, which on the one hand makes Europeans white, on the other hand shows the genetic bridge with Asia and Mongoloids.

[catgeorge]

They're European, enough of this inane , illiterate and ignorant bullshit.

[Nosferatu_]

White has a different meaning for different people. I doubt there will even be a clear answer about what does white really mean,so it's a useless term.Who's more white blond turanid or a tanned med?

[Krivich]

Off-white. Still European, though, and sharing a common ethos. However, some Italian phenotypes include a fairly dark skin tone and/or thick pitch black hair growing in tufts. This doesn't really exist among natives here.

Europe is also genetically quite diverse and it's nonsense pretending we're part of the same race. Races being an arbitrary classification approximated in several attemps like Coon's classifications.

The General spirit of the EU is not related to national characteristics in fact, a Northern European who is not accustomed to the sight of Italians, will not distinguish southern Italians from migrants from the Middle East. 1.They are very dark 2.They are very choleric and noisy. They cannot be compared in spirit to the calm northeastern German Atlanta. Eastern Slavs, Italians look incredibly exotic. 3. Either it is necessary to recognize the Turks, Caucasians, Arabs as Europeans, or it is necessary to recognize that there is no such thing as a European. They live in Europe: southern Europeans, Western Europeans, Eastern Europeans, Finns, Turks. And all these Europeans have transition zones to the neighboring continent. Iberians and Italians in Africa, Eastern Europeans in Siberia. Western Europe in Siberia and Africa.

[Sikeliot]

What is fully European genetically though? Who would be considered so? We all have some non-European admixture. Genuine question here.

I mean they are genetically closer to West Asians than to 90% of Europeans. The only Europeans closer genetically to a Sicilian than a West Asian is, are Albanian/Greek/Bulgarian people and other Italians.

[Sikeliot]

All Europeans are a mixture of Early European Farmers, European Hunter Gatherers, Ancestral North Eurasian and Caucasus Hunter Gatherer in various amounts.

This is where the distinction is: south Italians also have Natufian/SW Asian, not just the four components listed above.

[Sikeliot]

In Italy we don't do that distinction. This distinction only happens out of the country (especially in USA) or other people who know nothing about italian history. In Southern Italy, if a fair skin guy meets a dark skin guy, they will never talk about skin or phenotype difference. They will never raise a conversation like that. We just know our history, so we don't get surprised by anyone's phenotype. That's because every family has at least one dark skin person, even the child is totally white. If you go to South Italy, you will get surprise how many people actually look like not from the South. What I understand from this forum, people believe in South Italy they all look arabs. I know many Northern Italians that look more mediterranean than people from the South. Sorry but I must tell you are totally wrong.

You can find light hair and eyes even in Cyprus. But light pigmented southern Italians still have southern features, most of the time.

[arkas]

This is where the distinction is: south Italians also have Natufian/SW Asian, not just the four components listed above.

I think the question needs to be asked, how much does culture play a part in classifying broad racial groups. Southern Italians and Sicilians are undeniably European in this regard.

The term "White", in Australia at least, always had a strong connotation with being Anglo Australian, whom for whatever reason tend to have a higher occurrence of Blonde hair and Blue eyes than even their Anglo British counterparts. My grandparents who migrated to Australia in the 30s and 40s from Greece, they would not have exactly identified with the term "White" but definately with the term "European". I think younger Italians and Greeks in Australia do identify with being White though.

[Sikeliot]

I think the question needs to be asked, how much does culture play a part in classifying broad racial groups. Southern Italians and Sicilians are undeniably European in this regard.

When discussing genetics and phenotype, it shouldn't play a part. However, the only reason we consider Sicilians or Cypriots "white" but Levantines and Iranians "people of color" (who look and are genetically far closer to them than are the Germans, Irish, French, or even Spanish) is because of religious and cultural differences. So in a way, where we draw the line is in fact heavily influenced by culture.