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Thread: Turkish R1a1a Ulash.

  1. #21
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    From a linguistic perspective,
    R-Z93 corresponds to the Indo-Iranic branch of Indo-European languages
    R-Z93>Z94>Z2124 corresponds to the Iranic branch of Indo-European languages
    R-Z93>Z94>Z2124>Z2123 corresponds to the Scytho-Sarmatian branch of the Iranic branch of the Indo-European language family

    This is a map of R1a subclades which was created based on results by FamilyTree DNA.

    The current distribution of the subclade R-Z2123 confirms exactly the existent historical records about Sarmatian tribes, like Alans. What are these records?

    The Alans moved into Western Europe and established a brief kingdom around Paris. Later, a part of them moved together with the Vandals in the Iberian peninsula, from where they were expelled by the Visigoths, ultimately settling in Tunisia and establishing a new kingdom there. There exists a relict distribution in southern Sardinia.

    The Alans who remained under Hunnic rule founded a powerful kingdom in the North Caucasus in the Middle Ages, which ended with the Mongol invasions in the 13th century AD. These Alans are said to be the ancestors of the modern Ossetians.

    The Alans spoke an Eastern Iranian language which derived from Scytho-Sarmatian and which in turn evolved into modern Ossetian.

    There are a lot of Bashkir samples with the result R-Z2123 because these were exactly the areas where ancient Scythian and Sarmatian tribes lived and flourished, before they got assimilated or pushed westwards by subsequent migrations.

    Please read here:
    Sarmatians
    Alans
    Scythian languages
    Eastern Iranian languages

  2. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by Artek View Post
    I can't tell for sure but you definitely don't belong to Y2619, a branch that is typical for European Jews (and especially for Ashkenazi Levites). Also you most likely don't belong to any other identified Jewish branches, at least you don't show any typical values for any such clade.

    Y-12 in your case will not give 100% certain prediction but I think that Z280>CTS1211>YP343>YP371 is the most likely option (~65-75%). Maybe you will match Senkevitch after an eventual upgrade? Who knows.
    So you saw my question? Interesting. Well, my paternal line is from Central Belarus, at least the great-grandfather was definitely from there.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Shubotai View Post
    From a linguistic perspective,
    R-Z93 corresponds to the Indo-Iranic branch of Indo-European languages
    R-Z93>Z94>Z2124 corresponds to the Iranic branch of Indo-European languages
    R-Z93>Z94>Z2124>Z2123 corresponds to the Scytho-Sarmatian branch of the Iranic branch of the Indo-European language family

    This is a map of R1a subclades which was created based on results by FamilyTree DNA.

    The current distribution of the subclade R-Z2123 confirms exactly the existent historical records about Sarmatian tribes, like Alans. What are these records?

    The Alans moved into Western Europe and established a brief kingdom around Paris. Later, a part of them moved together with the Vandals in the Iberian peninsula, from where they were expelled by the Visigoths, ultimately settling in Tunisia and establishing a new kingdom there. There exists a relict distribution in southern Sardinia.

    The Alans who remained under Hunnic rule founded a powerful kingdom in the North Caucasus in the Middle Ages, which ended with the Mongol invasions in the 13th century AD. These Alans are said to be the ancestors of the modern Ossetians.

    The Alans spoke an Eastern Iranian language which derived from Scytho-Sarmatian and which in turn evolved into modern Ossetian.

    There are a lot of Bashkir samples with the result R-Z2123 because these were exactly the areas where ancient Scythian and Sarmatian tribes lived and flourished, before they got assimilated or pushed westwards by subsequent migrations.

    Please read here:
    Sarmatians
    Alans
    Scythian languages
    Eastern Iranian languages
    To my knowledge R1a is very rare among the Ossetians. Less than 10%. And most Bashkirs are R1b (I still wonder why).

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    Well, apparently then, that less than 10% gave them their language and is R-Z2123 in majority, so that is why it is eastern iranic.

    Actually, the subclades of Bashkirs have already been discussed here, so let's see:

    Break down for R1b subclades in Bashkirs

    n* M73 M269(xL23) L23(xM412) U152

    South-East Baskkirs 329 77 8 106 2

    West Bashkirs 54 0 0 0 0

    South Bashkirs 79 0 2 9 1

    North Bashkirs 70 1 0 2 50

    Southe-West Baskkirs 51 1 0 0 0

    Total 586 79 10 126 53

    * number of sample Bashkirs

    The research can be read here: A major Y-chromosome haplogroup R1b Holocene era founder effect in Central and Western Europe

    But there is still confusion regarding R-M73 and Q-M25.

    Here it is not argued that R1b is the majority among Bashkir samples, but that the R1a subclades among Turkic-speaking, Mongolic-speaking and possibly some Uralic-speaking peoples in Russia are of the Z93 variant, contrary to the Z283 variant which is prevalent in other peoples in Russia and the rest of Europe.

    Additionally, it should be noted that R-M73 has also been found among Karachay-Balkars in northern Caucasus, so these people probably migrated together. In the same site Khazaria, it is noted that Karachays are 39% R-Z93, while northern Ossetians are only 4% R1a, with southern Ossetians being 12% R1a.

  5. #25
    Veteran Member Yaglakar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Shubotai View Post
    From a linguistic perspective,
    R-Z93 corresponds to the Indo-Iranic branch of Indo-European languages
    R-Z93>Z94>Z2124 corresponds to the Iranic branch of Indo-European languages
    R-Z93>Z94>Z2124>Z2123 corresponds to the Scytho-Sarmatian branch of the Iranic branch of the Indo-European language family

    This is a map of R1a subclades which was created based on results by FamilyTree DNA.

    The current distribution of the subclade R-Z2123 confirms exactly the existent historical records about Sarmatian tribes, like Alans. What are these records?

    The Alans moved into Western Europe and established a brief kingdom around Paris. Later, a part of them moved together with the Vandals in the Iberian peninsula, from where they were expelled by the Visigoths, ultimately settling in Tunisia and establishing a new kingdom there. There exists a relict distribution in southern Sardinia.

    The Alans who remained under Hunnic rule founded a powerful kingdom in the North Caucasus in the Middle Ages, which ended with the Mongol invasions in the 13th century AD. These Alans are said to be the ancestors of the modern Ossetians.

    The Alans spoke an Eastern Iranian language which derived from Scytho-Sarmatian and which in turn evolved into modern Ossetian.

    There are a lot of Bashkir samples with the result R-Z2123 because these were exactly the areas where ancient Scythian and Sarmatian tribes lived and flourished, before they got assimilated or pushed westwards by subsequent migrations.

    Please read here:
    Sarmatians
    Alans
    Scythian languages
    Eastern Iranian languages
    That is merely an assumption. There is not enough data on Scythian languages or medieval Alan language to draw the above conclusions. There was a definitely variety of different possibly unintelligible "Scythian" languages.

  6. #26
    aR1an & hUnt4r-gatherer Artek's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Leto View Post
    To my knowledge R1a is very rare among the Ossetians. Less than 10%. And most Bashkirs are R1b (I still wonder why).
    Ossetians have low internal diversity of a haplogroup G what suggests founder effect, they may not represent the ancestral linguistic group per their Y-DNA.

    Quote Originally Posted by Leto View Post
    So you saw my question? Interesting. Well, my paternal line is from Central Belarus, at least the great-grandfather was definitely from there.
    I just saw your question on Activity Feed, I guess I don't need to paste my post there ;D. YP371 has rather southerly distribution but there are exceptions. Obviously there was a lot of movement during medieval period, therefore we have ethnic Estonian under YP371, for example.
    R1a-Z282>Z280>CTS1211>Y35>CTS3402>Y33>CTS8816>Y2902>Y3226>YP5224>BY27800
    N1c-L1026>CTS10760>VL29>Z4908>L550>L1025>M2783>Y5580>L591>BY158>Y5576
    R1a-Z282>Z280>CTS1211>YP1019>YP1020>YP1033*
    R1b-U152>L2>DF103>S14469
    It's still not an end.
    R1a and R1b unite - Join!

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