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Thread: Alternative history: What if Turks first encountered and adopted Christianity instead of Islam?

  1. #21
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    By the way ''OSMAN GHAZI'' is a Muslim fabrication.
    Not only his father had a non-Muslim Turkic name, that is Ertuğrul (and father of Ertuğrul also didn't have Muslim name).
    Tuğrul is like Hungarian Turul, a holy bird in Tengrist religion.

    The real name of Ertuğrul's son was Atman or Ataman. We have Byzantine contemporary source, Pechymeres.

    Byzantines always recorded Muslims with name Osman as Othman. But Pechymeres refers to Ottoman's father as Atman.
    Here record of Pechymeres.


    Ottomans later Islamized their father's name with Osman through distortions.

    Ataman's father was Ertuğrul (Turkic name), his brothers were Savji and Gündüz (Turkic names).
    Ataman named his son as Orkhan (Turkic name), why would he have a Muslim name?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Böri View Post
    The world in late Middle Ages wasn't as backward as many thinks. There were people who were travelling, spreading faiths and making propaganda.

    The Turks (Oghuz people) lived inside Khazarian Khaganate and were exposed to both Jewish and Christian propaganda, however this was both rejected.

    Judaism appeared weird and mysterious, probably why that didn't make through. Christianity lost from the very beginning, since the worship of humans, icons and statues were very strange and not compatible with Turks who had Siberian shamanic and Tengrianist mentality. Even today Yakuts, despite 300 years of constant Russian Orthodox propaganda are still not Christian truly.

    We must also emphasize Turks rejected the Islam brought by Arabs. Sogdian missionaries were successful among the Turks. Not Arabs. Turks were lured into Sogdian version of Islam which posed that as a human and popular faith, while rejecting the Arab Islam which was an ethno-religious chauvinism Arabizing folks and spreading by the sword. See today, Arameans, Coptes, Berbers and many other cultures were wiped out by Arab Islam.
    If I understand you Turks adopted islam in central Asia before migration to the Middle East and Anatolia?

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    Veteran Member Austrvegr's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Böri View Post
    Judaism appeared weird and mysterious, probably why that didn't make through
    Actually, it did. First Seljuks were vassals of Jewish Khazars and adopted Judaism. Just look at their names. They also had a "house of prayer", which for sure was a synagogue.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Bosniensis View Post
    Mongrel Babble
    Where's the proof?Inside of your ass.Turks always tried to emulate the Byzantines, fake stories like this are a part of.It wouldn't even matter if what you said is true.Why?I told you before.The Ottomans were invaders,Mehmed II had no legitimacy for the Roman Emperor title because he was never crowned by a superior authority.Fuck outta here.


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    Quote Originally Posted by Pribislav View Post
    If I understand you Turks adopted islam in central Asia before migration to the Middle East and Anatolia?
    Allright. Without being conquered by any Muslim state or army. When Arabs tried during 8th century, we destroyed their attempts. They could conquer only until Sogdians, no beyond.
    Later these Sogdians showed Islam as a non-Arab popular faith to Turks and their missionary activities succeeded.

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    Quote Originally Posted by IncelSlayer View Post
    Where's the proof?Inside of your ass.Turks always tried to emulate the Byzantines, fake stories like this are a part of.It wouldn't even matter if what you said is true.Why?I told you before.The Ottomans were invaders,Mehmed II had no legitimacy for the Roman Emperor title because he was never crowned by a superior authority.Fuck outta here.

    In Roman Empire, Emperor is the one who claim the throne through Strength and Power and Valid Royal Claim!

    Only Indo-Germanic (Indo-European) people "proclaim rulers" by Pope.

    Also, Ecumenal Patriarch Gennadios II recognized his Authority, All Orthodoxes accepted his government in exchange for protection against "barbarians" aka. Catholics.

    "Superior Authority" ... you are too young obviously and know nothing how Roman Empire worked.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Böri View Post
    By the way ''OSMAN GHAZI'' is a Muslim fabrication.
    Not only his father had a non-Muslim Turkic name, that is Ertuğrul (and father of Ertuğrul also didn't have Muslim name).
    Tuğrul is like Hungarian Turul, a holy bird in Tengrist religion.

    The real name of Ertuğrul's son was Atman or Ataman. We have Byzantine contemporary source, Pechymeres.

    Byzantines always recorded Muslims with name Osman as Othman. But Pechymeres refers to Ottoman's father as Atman.
    Here record of Pechymeres.


    Ottomans later Islamized their father's name with Osman through distortions.

    Ataman's father was Ertuğrul (Turkic name), his brothers were Savji and Gündüz (Turkic names).
    Ataman named his son as Orkhan (Turkic name), why would he have a Muslim name?
    That's a theory, I believe that he is Turkified Byzantine (like all other Turks who became Turkified from something). He is no less Turk or Byzantine in that matter.

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    Enlightened Cypriot Macedonian Thanas Django's Avatar
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    The thread is flying off to a tangent because of Bosniensis.

    However, I am interested in the story behind Turks mass converting to Islam as a nation before Manzikert.
    Being Greek is an experienced grounded into nation, not consumption.

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    Enlightened Cypriot Macedonian Thanas Django's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Böri View Post
    since the worship of humans, icons and statues were very strange and not compatible with Turks who had Siberian shamanic and Tengrianist mentality.
    I don't recall Eastern Christianity having any statues in display.
    Being Greek is an experienced grounded into nation, not consumption.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Bosniensis View Post
    That's a theory, I believe that he is Turkified Byzantine (like all other Turks who became Turkified from something). He is no less Turk or Byzantine in that matter.
    Muslim Greeks would name their children after Arabic or Persian names.
    Ever wondered why even the second Ottoman Bey had a Turkic name (Orkhan).
    First Arabic name appears with Murad, who won at Kosovo in 1389 AD. And Murad is not a religious Arabic name, that means Good Wish.

    Quote Originally Posted by Thanas Django View Post
    The thread is flying off to a tangent because of Bosniensis.

    However, I am interested in the story behind Turks mass converting to Islam as a nation before Manzikert.
    In the beginning Arabs conquer all Iranic regions of southern Central Asia. They try to arabize locals, that doesn't work. However the native Sogdians, Khwarezmians adopt Islam.
    Some Arabs even invented hadiths, where supposedly the Prophet of Islam would have said ''Arabic is the language of Paradise, while Persian is the language spoken in Hell''.
    Still Arabs can't arabize the Iranics.

    Anyway, later those Islamicized Iranians started to create their own states as clients of Umayyads. They later catch up some Karluks and islamize them.
    Later that Sogdian version of Islam which is non-Arab and perceived as Popular Faith (like Christianity or Buddhism) starts to spread.

    At some point during the 10th century, the Khazarians lose control over Turks (Oghuz people).
    And we see Islam started to spread. One tribe converts another.
    Arab traveller Ibn Fadlan reports in 920's that few of Oghuz Turks are Muslim, still minority.

    Then that conversion starts spreading during next decades and ending in a Muslim vs Non-Muslim civil war.
    The Seljuk family leads the converts. They lose civil war.
    Then they move to more south east and create their state in coming years.
    By 1070, they already occupy all of Iran and most of ME and Transcaucasia.

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