Martin Kohlmann agrees with Peterski

[Peterski]

Not today, my friend.

179 men (from 128 families) of Mazovian nobility were tested for their Y-DNA haplogroups:

I'm still wondering what the 16th century Poland has to do with modern day Poland.

Everything? And what does the 16th century Germany have to do with modern Germany?

[Teutone]

179 men (from 128 families) of Mazovian nobility were tested for their Y-DNA haplogroups:





Everything? And what does the 16th century Germany have to do with modern Germany?

Where he refferenced to 16th century germany in this thread?

stop building a strawman

[Peterski]

Where he refferenced to 16th century germany in this thread?

I don't care about 16th century Germany but modern Poland is the direct heir of 16th century Poland.

And most of descendants of 16th century Polish-Lithuanian Commonwealth's nobility live in Poland.

OTOH modern Belarus, Ukraine, Lithuania, Latvia are nations descended primarily from peasants.

[Silver Lining]

179 men (from 128 families) of Mazovian nobility were tested for their Y-DNA haplogroups:

Y-DNA is so 2008 and not so informative.

Everything? And what does the 16th century Germany have to do with modern Germany?

Not so much. Different language, different genetics (now more "Southern" and "Eastern" shifted), different mentality, different society, different values... why do you always talk about "Germany"? I am not even overly patriotic or nationalistic.

[Peterski]

Different language, different genetics (now more "Southern" and "Eastern" shifted)

Why would we be more Southern and Eastern than in 1550 AD, if between years 1550 AD and 1900 AD we had only immigration from the West and North? IBD sharing of Poles in the last 540 years shows only connection with East Germany (other links are less significant for this time period):

http://www.cmap.polytechnique.fr/~an...PPGE/Ralph.pdf



Their sample size for Poland is 22 individuals from Mazovia (Table 1):

https://arxiv.org/pdf/1207.3815.pdf

http://journals.plos.org/plosbiology...l.pbio.1001555

This map also shows their sample sizes used for each country:

[Silver Lining]

LOL. Why would we be more Southern and Eastern if between 1550 AD and 1900 AD we had only immigration from the West and North?

I am talking about Germany. There is also genetic selection within an existing population without outside influence.

[Peterski]

I am talking about Germany.

Germany is more Eastern and Southern than in the 16th century? Not necessarily.

The Thirty Years' War killed a lot inhabitants in areas with very Slavic genetics like Mecklenburg-Vorpommern:



^^^
These very depopulated areas were at least partially repopulated by settlers from West Germany after the war.

[Peterski]

North-West Germany was the least affected by demographic losses in the Thirty Years' War.

[Silver Lining]

Germany is more Eastern and Southern than in the 16th century? Not necessarily. The Thirty Years' War killed a lot inhabitants in areas with very Slavic genetics like Mecklenburg-Vorpommern, that were later repopulated by immigrants from West Germany:

But we do not know WHO was actually killed. Alpines and Slavs lived in more inhospitable areas, than the more Germanic Nordics. So they probably weren't in the focus of slaughter that much. Most fighters also were probably Northern stock. Add to this World War 1 and World War 2. Refugees from Eastern Europe are now intermixed with Germans from all over the country. Millions of Northern Germans moved to the South. Northern traits are recessive, higher birthrates of the lower classes, and so on. It is very complex. North Western Germany is also less populated.

[Dandelion]

Poland's true dimensions are more Western than current Poland's and more Eastern at the same time.