What is your opinion on Miklós Horthy?

[Videx]

Nazi-allied anti-semitic authoritarian leader? as leftist people usually refer to him...
Or a patriotic person who only wanted to get back the lost lands of ethnic Hungarians?

[blogen]

Negative. He join to the Axis and lost half of Hungary with this huge mistake!

[Videx]

Negative. He join to the Axis and lost half of Hungary with this huge mistake!

But imagine if he joined the Allies. Would they help in any way? I think not. Look at Poland. Also Romania switched in the last moment, did it get better for them in terms of communism? No. In territory yes, that is true... but I doubt that territory would have ever been ours if the allies were to win.

in the end, I think Hungary would have been invaded by Hitler a lot sooner if we joined the allies. And the real insane leader like Szálasi would have been sooner on power, which would be more devastating for the country.

At least Horthy was sane. But I understand your opinion, people are really divided on him.

[blogen]

But imagine if he joined the Allies. Would they help in any way? I think not. Look at Poland. Also Romania switched in the last moment, did it get better for them in terms of communism? No. In territory yes, that is true... but I doubt that territory would have ever been ours if the allies were to win.

in the end, I think Hungary would have been invaded by Hitler a lot sooner if we joined the allies. And the real insane leader like Szálasi would have been sooner on power, which would be more devastating for the country.

At least Horthy was sane. But I understand your opinion, people are really divided on him.

The main benefits of an Anglo-Saxon alliance:

- the German occupators exterminated all of the Hungarian Jews (Polish situation after the war until today, an ethnically homogeneous country without serious traitors).
- we win the Carpathian basin against the Axis Romania, Slovakia, Austria, etc.

The main benefits of an neutral status until the end of the war:

- we win the Carpathian basin against the Axis Romania, Slovakia, Austria, etc.
- zero war damages in Hungary.

The Axis alliance did not have benefits, this was an ideological mistake.

[Jana]

I asked parents of my boyfriend what They think of Horthy. Their opinion is largerly positive.
especially among Szekely.

For them communists and Arrow Cross nazis Were the bad guys.

[IncelSlayer]

I asked parents of my boyfriend what They think of Horthy. Their opinion is largerly positive.
especially among Szekely.

For them communists and Arrow Cross nazis Were the bad guys.

Only szekelys consider Horthy an eliberator because his regime tried to exterminate romanians from N.Transylvania.

[Jana]

Only szekelys consider Horthy an eliberator because his regime tried to exterminate romanians from N.Transylvania.

Prove it. You are Romanian ultranationalist so I don't believe word you say.

[blogen]

Prove it. You are Romanian ultranationalist so I don't believe word you say.

No, no, no, please no! We don't cares the Romanian lunatic's proves!

[Videx]

The main benefits of an Anglo-Saxon alliance:

- the German occupators exterminated all of the Hungarian Jews (Polish situation after the war until today, an ethnically homogeneous country without serious traitors).
- we win the Carpathian basin against the Axis Romania, Slovakia, Austria, etc.

The main benefits of an neutral status until the end of the war:

- we win the Carpathian basin against the Axis Romania, Slovakia, Austria, etc.
- zero war damages in Hungary.

The Axis alliance did not have benefits, this was an ideological mistake.

I am not so sure that this is how it would have gone down. But maybe trying to be neutral would have been good.

And against Austria we could not have win, because they claimed they were the first victims of Hitler.. . And that they didn't do anything. And everyone bought it. So...

[IncelSlayer]

Prove it. You are Romanian ultranationalist so I don't believe word you say...

I'm romanian nationalist?Ask iron.
Foolish girl,that from 1940-44',when hungarians received N.Transylvania,they tried to exterminate romanians from there to unite it with Szekelyland,is a historical fact.It must be stated here that in the entire history of the Romanian people, ever since the Hungarians came to Europe, and all through the years that a Hungarian minority was under Romanian jurisdiction, there can not be cited one single instance in which a Hungarian had ever been misused, mistreated, beaten or murdered by the Romanians because of his nationality.
https://ro.wikipedia.org/wiki/Masacr...ord,_1940-1944

Spoiler!

The principal methods by which the Horthyst regime tried to exterminate and eliminate the Romanians and thus to change the country's demographic balance in favor of the Magyars were:

- Individual or mass maltreatment and murder;

- expulsion and dislodgement, in most cases of entirecommunities or large groups of Romanians from urban and rural localities;

- Preventing the representatives of the Romanians to take part in political and state affairs;

- forced magyarization by way of religion, education, literature, press, the state life;

- internment in concentration camps, recruitment of forced labor detachments to be sent to Germany or Hungary. - dispossession of property and other acts of economic oppression.

The program of the extermination of the Romanians was theorized in a pamphlet signed by Dgcso Csaba, entitled Nincs kegyelem (No mercy), which was published in 1939 where he says: "The Hungarian nation is the most splendid achievement of the Mongolian dominant race, which knows only victory. The blood of Attila, Arpad and Genghis Khan is boiling in their veins", and further Dgcs_ Csaba says: "I will not wait for revenge to come. I will not wait ! I will suppress every Wallachian (Romanian) that comes my way. I will suppress every one of them. There will be no mercy. I shall set the villages on fire at night - Wallachian (Romanian) villages ! I shall put to the sword the whole population; I shall poison all the wells and shall kill even the babies in their cribs; I will destroy this nation ! .... There will be no mercy for anybody".

By means of an extremely complex political state machinery, the Horthyst Government fostered assassination and cultivated fanatic displays of hyperchauvinisme, with most serious consequences for the Romanian population.

Characterizing the policy carried out by Horthy's Hungary in the occupied territory of Transylvania in 1940, adocument prepared by the Romanian Ministry of Foreign Affairs noted:

"Since Hungary has obtained this territory not following a cruel, bloody war, but as a political favor, and since the stages of this occupation by the Hungarian authorities had been established in advance, down to the last detail, it was expected that everything would proceed in perfect order. It was also believed that Hungary, which until the end of 1918 had been a country with numerous and strong ethnical minorities, had learned that those minorities could neither be assimilated by force, nor eliminated by terror, and that, having become again master over a territory in which the Romanian element made the absolute majority of the population, Hungary will give up its old imperialistic policies and would grant the Romanians a minimum of rights and freedoms which were necessary for a normal development of their national life. Yet it did not happen that way."

The murderous political slogans for the minority problems of Kosztenszki Geza from 1893, and the " Creed of Revisionists " of the '30th years, followed by the more criminal slogans of Ducs_ Csaba have found a nationwide acceptance, as testified by the following quotation from a speech delivered by Baron AczIl Ede, the chief of paramilitary forces in the county of Cluj, when the Hungarian administration took over Northern Transylvania in 1940:

"We must exterminate these Romanian peasants; we must murder them as we kill our worst enemies... Our priests preach love, but that is only a pretext; for God helps only those who are strong and brutal, and we all must be strong and brutal and kill and annihilate these Romanians; The tencommandments of religion are: thou shalt not steal, not covet another man's wife, for it is sinful to do these things. Or is it ? No, it is not! The only sin is to fail to destroy these Romanian peasants. We will have a new massacre of St. Bartholomew and we will murder the unborn infant in its mother's belly."

As all witnesses of good faith testify, the Hungarian St. Bartholomew's night took place. In the last quarter of the year 1940, short after the occupation of Northern Transylvania, 6,830 unarmed Romanian victims, children and women, were martyrized and murdered by Hungarians, 17 churches were razed to the ground, 33 churches were destroyed and prohibited to be repaired and used; 53 churches were closed and sealed by the Hungarian administration, 142 Romanian priests were arrested, exiled, tortured to death and murdered. All the testimonies are gathered at the Romanian Orthodox Bishopric of Sibiu and partly are published in the book: Transylvania, l'ultima persecuzione magiara" (Transylvania, the last Hungarian persecution), Edizione Europa, Roma, 1980, by Ioan Ciolan, and can be perused. Or as the Romanian historian of Jewish decent Dr. Oliver Lustig remarks in his Study "Diastorsions and Misreprezentations that Bring Insults and Desecrate the Memory of the Victims of Horthy's Reign of Terror" , in "Romanian Historical Studies" Miami Beach, 1995, page 3:

"....having invaded the north-west of Romania as a consequence of the arbitrary Dictate of Vienna (30 August 1940), the entire repressive apparatus, the entire machinery of Horthy's oppression was directed against the Romanian population, against whom they perpetrated thousands of individual and collective murders, laying waste and mistreating , spreading fear and terror in towns and villages,installing a reign of terror unparalleled in history for its savageness."
Some examples:
The case of Father Aurel Munteanu of Huedin is one example. On September 10, 1940, going to a funeral, he was intercepted downtown by a mob of 21 vengeful Hungarians who attacked him, yelling: " Thievish priest, dirty Romanian! " They started dealing him blows so that he fell down streaming with blood. For four hours did they torture him, until finally one of these worthy descendant of Arpad and Genghis Khan, whose name was Buday Janos Gyepu, forced an iron bar down his throat that emerged through the nape of the priests neck. The priests corpse, together with that of his companion Gheorghe Nicula, also beaten to death by this Hungarian mob, was carried out of town and thrown into a ditch. The two slaughtered men lay there unknown for60 days. Finally Gheorghe Nicula's wife found out where the corpses had been hidden and attempted to remove them to a cemetery, to grant them Christian burial. The Hungarian police prevented her. Since however the fact had by now become generally known, the authorities were faced with the necessity of allowing the two corpses to undergo autopsy and burial rites.

Thousands of citizens participated in the funeral of the two Romanian martyrs. An armed Hungarian police detachment intervened and forced the mourners to disperse immediately after the coffins were lowered in the ground.

To appease the general dissatisfaction, a make-believe trial was staged, registered under the No B 4239/1941/6 with the Courthouse of Cluj. The state attorney gave the following explanation for the crime that was committed in his indictment: "It happened in highly emotional circumstances for the sufferings of this minority during the 22 years of Romanian domination." The accused were sentenced to 2-3 months in jail and their sentence was subsequently suspended ( "Transylvania ", by Ioan Ciolan, pag, 24).

Another case is that of the massacre of "Muresenii de Campie". An officer in the Hungarian army, Muray, born in Debrecen, who had never in his life been under Romanian rule, together with a platoon of Hungarian soldiers, came on September 23, 1940, to the house of the Greek Catholic priest Andrei Bujor. They found there the priest himself, his wife Lucretia, his elder daughter Lucia, age 25, B.A. from the University of Cluj, his younger daughter Maria, age 21, a student of Physics at the same university, and his son Victor, age 18, graduating from high school. They also found in the house a Hungarian maid, Shari. They brought withthem the deacon with his wife, and village schoolmistress with her 4-year old daughter and her 70-year old mother. They could not find the schoolmistress's husband.

These eleven victims were beaten and tortured all night long. At dawn they were shot and thrown into a hollow ditch, so that the next day one could still hear the groans of those buried while still alive.

A report of those barbarous proceedings, accounted for only by the atavistic bloodthirstiness of these descendants of Arpad, was filed with the Bishopric of Cluj, and also higher up, with the office of the papal nuncio of Budapesta and the Vatican, (op, cit. pp. 23-26).

The same troop of executioners led by Muray, is responsible for the famous massacre of Traznea , where on September 9, 1941, 81 Romanians were murdered and 27 houses were set on fire. They are also responsible for the massacre of Ip, of September 13, 1940, where 157 Romanians were murdered (op. cit. pag. 9).

Proofs of these crimes committed by the Hungarians against the Romanians subjected to Hungarian government after the Diktat of Vienna of Hitler and Mussolini for the period of 1940-1944, has been also submitted by the Romanian delegates to the Conference of Peace, Paris, 1946.

The extent and the ghastly bloodthirstiness of the atrocities perpetrated by the Hungarians against the Romanians are hard to conceive even by ourselves, those who suffered from them, because acts such as those of the Hungarians do not belong to the range of the human behavior in Europe. The Romanian way of life does not admit cruelty and bloodthirstiness such as that documented here. We, Romanians, never devastated churches, never desecratedreligious symbols, never tore to pieces the insignia of anyone's faith and never turned anyone's place of worship into a toilet. Never were such things done by members of a European nation who call themselves Christians. Those who do such things and those who promote a frame of mind conducive to such acts certainly are not members of a civilized Christian society, no matter how hard they denigrate and calumniate other nations.