Ancient Church Hidden in Turkish Lake. And a Pagan Temple May Lie Beneath It.

[Selurong]

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Is Jesus Christ considered a demon or a sorceror in Talmudic Judaism? I read stuff about it online.

Emminent scholars say that the Babylonian Talmud considers Jesus a sorceror who was rightly executed for idolatry and disturbing the peace and inciting people to revolt and that the Virgin Mary was a whore and the holy incarnation was just a cover up for her adultery.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jesu...and_censorship

If so, that's would be awesome! Our God is some hardcore demon in Hebrew Cannon!

Funny how your Greek and Roman conquerors of Israel consider Christ as God but the Babylonian Talmud considers Christ a Demon.

Also, I have a question, since most Ashkenazi are half European and half Semitic...

Don't you think you guys betrayed your European half when you guys rejected Christ, the Alpha and Omega (Greco-Roman European terms) and embraced your Semitic Babylonian derived religion?

Also what do you think of the accusation that the whore of Babylon is in fact earthly Jerusalem?

https://bible.org/seriespage/chapter...rusalem-harlot




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[Longbowman]

1) first, the Talmud is a collection of opinions, so even if it said Mary was x or y it would not in fact be canon
2) a couple of stories do mention sorcerers called Jesus but it was a common name and the stories don't match up to your ones. Nothing about a demon that I can recall though. The direct references to Jesus just say he was hanged (not crucified) and he had a few disciples but not 12.
3) Joseph the Carpenter thought Mary was a whore according to the Bible you say is the word of God so you shouldn't be too surprised if the Talmud thinks she was. You'd have to be a Christian to think she wasn't as proven by the bible itself.
4) on the contrary. Other Europeans betrayed Europe by adopting a semitic derived religion (Christianity) even without being half Semitic, and using it to destroy local European religions, often with mass bloodshed. Judaism has not launched any crusades against the pagans of Europe. As the pagans were wiped out the Jews stand as the last Europeans who did not betray Europe.

You betrayed both Europe and the Philippines when you adopted Christianity but Jews who preserved Judaism remained loyal to Europe.
4a) as I am not fully Ashkenazi I am less than half European
5) we ignore all pseudo-kabbalistic christian horsebabble about the synagogue of Satan or whatever. The entirety of revelations is ridiculous even by Catholic standards. It also says only ethnic Jews will be saved so if you go by it you're fucked.

[Papastratosels26]

Hagia Sophia

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[Selurong]

1) first, the Talmud is a collection of opinions, so even if it said Mary was x or y it would not in fact be canon

Ok, thank you.

2) a couple of stories do mention sorcerers called Jesus but it was a common name and the stories don't match up to your ones. Nothing about a demon that I can recall though. The direct references to Jesus just say he was hanged (not crucified) and he had a few disciples but not 12.

He was accused of being being in league with demons by the Pharisees though.


Matthew 12:22-32

22 Then some people brought Yeshua a man possessed by a demon. The demon made the man blind and unable to talk. Yeshua cured him so that he could talk and see.

23 The crowds were all amazed and said, “Can this man be the Son of David?” 24 When the Pharisees heard this, they said, “This man can force demons out of people only with the help of Beelzebul, the ruler of demons.”

3) Joseph the Carpenter thought Mary was a whore according to the Bible you say is the word of God so you shouldn't be too surprised if the Talmud thinks she was. You'd have to be a Christian to think she wasn't as proven by the bible itself.

I believe she was a virgin. We're actually gonna celebrate her Birthday tomorrow (In advance). So I have to dress up in Virgin-Mary Blue for liturgical attire when I serve tomorrow.

Also Isiah an Old Testament Prophet (Which you believe in), prophesied the Virgin Birth...

Isaiah 7:14 is a verse of the Book of Isaiah in which the prophet Isaiah, addressing king Ahaz of Judah, promises the king that God will destroy his enemies; as a sign that his oracle is a true one, Isaiah predicts that an almah ("Virgin") will shortly give birth to a child whose name will be Immanuel, "God is with us"...

Also in the same vein, Jeremiah prophesied the New Testament (New Covenant) which will replace the Old Testament (Old Covenant).

Jeremiah 31:31-34

31 The Lord says, "The time is coming when I will make a new covenant with the people of Israel and with the people of Judah. 32 It will not be like the old covenant that I made with their ancestors when I took them by the hand and led them out of Egypt. Although I was like a husband to them, they did not keep that covenant. 33 The new covenant that I will make with the people of Israel will be this: I will put my law within them and write it on their hearts. I will be their God, and they will be my people. 34 None of them will have to teach a neighbor to know the Lord, because all will know me, from the least to the greatest. I will forgive their sins and I will no longer remember their wrongs. I, the Lord, have spoken."

4) on the contrary. Other Europeans betrayed Europe by adopting a semitic derived religion (Christianity) even without being half Semitic,

Christianity isn't Semitic, it's Roman when it comes to its times (Albeit with Greek Philosophy and Jewish Theology) even Jesus himself was enrolled as a Roman citizen when Ceasar instituted the census.

(Luke 2:1-5)

And it came to pass in those days that a decree went out from Caesar Augustus that all the world should be registered. This census first took place while Qurinius was governing Syria. So all went to be registered, everyone to his own city. Joseph also went up from Galilee, out of the city of Nazareth into Judea, to the city of David, which is called Bethlehem, because he was of the house and lineage of David, to be registered, to Mary, his betrothed wife, who was with child

And using it to destroy local European religions, often with mass bloodshed. Judaism has not launched any crusades against the pagans of Europe. As the pagans were wiped out the Jews stand as the last Europeans who did not betray Europe.

Christianity was spread in the Roman Empire and also, as you can see from the previous posts before this one, it's a myth that Christianity destroyed previous religions, what happened was that Christianity "Syncretized" with previous religions before Orthodoxy was gradually applied. Ancient Jews may not have waged crusades against Europeans but they had no problem destroying Canaanites and Philistines (Who were ancient Greeks mind you). Judaism has not launched any crusade against Europe, but modern Jews through Freemasonry and etc. has tried its damn bestest to destroy the Christian roots of European civilization.

You betrayed both Europe and the Philippines when you adopted Christianity

Lels, no. The Philippines as a country only became a united nation when the Malolos Constitution was ratified in the Christian Barasoain Church. Before that, there was no Philippines, there were quarreling Datus, Rajahs, Huangs and Sultans trying wage war upon another. Also, it was through the martyrdom of three local Christian priests, Gomburza, that the Philippines rose in revolt against Spain. We actually revolted upon the death of holy people, that's in sharp contrast to ancient Israel who murdered the OT prophets and accuse holy people such as Christ to be cavorting with demons.

but Jews who preserved Judaism remained loyal to Europe.

Not necessarily. It depends whether they place their loyalty to their country above their religion or tribe, or not.

4a) as I am not fully Ashkenazi I am less than half European

Ok. Then I shall consider you as a (majority) Semitic Europhile though, for this thread you made...
https://www.theapricity.com/forum/sh...ions-worldwide

5) we ignore all pseudo-kabbalistic christian horsebabble about the synagogue of Satan or whatever. The entirety of revelations is ridiculous even by Catholic standards. It also says only ethnic Jews will be saved so if you go by it you're fucked.

Lol even non Jews are saved in the Book of Revelation. Why is there a part there where the nations are to be healed? If not that the grace of salvation be extended to everyone?


Revelation 22:2
2 In the middle of its street, and on either side of the river, was the tree of life, which bore twelve fruits, each tree yielding its fruit every month. The leaves of the tree were for the healing of the nations.

Also, didn't your own OT prophets call Jerusalem a faithless harlot?

Hosea 2:2
Plead with your mother, plead: for she is not my wife, neither am I her husband: let her therefore put away her whoredoms out of her sight, and her adulteries from between her breasts;

Jeremiah 3:9
Indifferent to her immorality, Israel had defiled the land and committed adultery with stones and trees.

Jeremiah 3:1
"If a man divorces his wife and she leaves him to marry another, can he ever return to her? Would not such a land be completely defiled? But you have played the harlot with many lovers--and you would return to Me?" declares the LORD.

The Bible (Both Old Testament and New) is consistent when it applies the term "whore" to Israel and Jerusalem. Christ even said that Jews are responsible for the deaths of all prophets and all messengers sent to her.

Also, due to Israel's position as the Holy site of 3 World Wide religions and the with so many empires shedding blood on it, isn't it also guilty of the scriptural warning of being drunk on the blood of the saints?

Revelation 17:5 and on her forehead was written a name of mystery: "Babylon the great, mother of harlots and of earth's abominations." 6 And I saw the woman, drunk with the blood of the saints and the blood of the martyrs of Jesus. When I saw her I marveled greatly. "

The Book of Revelation also says that the Virginal New Jerusalem will descend and replace the old whore Jerusalem.
Anyway, I'm at least glad that you're self-exiled Jew not a Zionist.

[Longbowman]

2) according to the new testament which we believe is a crock of lies, sure
3) mistranslation, the Hebrew word used is 'young woman' and even if it weren't it wouldn't be proof that Jesus fulfilled the prophecy just because you said so
4) lol @ you for believing any of that. It doesn't deserve a rebuttal. If you want a conversation about how yes Christianity is indo-european idol worship we can go there, but what it pretends and wants to be is a semitic religion, inheritor of Judaism, that slaughtered the pagans and destroyed Europe.
5) 144,000 will be saved, 12,000 from each tribe (revelations). Are you an Israelite? Unlucky - you're fucked. Again only you believe in the NT so quoting it at non-Christians won't work.

Those prophecies have already been realised. They don't apply to Jerusalem today. They apply to the Jewish nation (or 'yisrael' - Israel) and Jewish institutions of the time which were subsequently punished in those very books. Stop trying to make them fit your narrative, if they had wanted to say Jerusalem they would have written that.

No idea what you mean by Zionist. I support Israel's existence, it's just not my country.

[Dragoon]

5) 144,000 will be saved, 12,000 from each tribe (revelations). Are you an Israelite? Unlucky - you're fucked. Again only you believe in the NT so quoting it at non-Christians won't work.

Those prophecies have already been realised. They don't apply to Jerusalem today. They apply to the Jewish nation (or 'yisrael' - Israel) and Jewish institutions of the time which were subsequently punished in those very books. Stop trying to make them fit your narrative, if they had wanted to say Jerusalem they would have written that.

Just so you know the 144,000 thing is probably seen literally by fundies but not by others.
and for some Christians the Jews/Israel actually refers to Christians in the New Testament.

Paul states: “no one is a Jew who is merely one outwardly, nor is circumcision outward and physical. But a Jew is one inwardly, and circumcision is a matter of the heart, by the Spirit, not by the letter.

[Longbowman]

Just so you know the 144,000 thing is probably seen literally by fundies but not by others.
and for some Christians the Jews/Israel actually refers to Christians in the New Testament.

Paul states: “no one is a Jew who is merely one outwardly, nor is circumcision outward and physical. But a Jew is one inwardly, and circumcision is a matter of the heart, by the Spirit, not by the letter.

Obviously but Christians are delusional. The excerpt literally says 12,000 from gad, asher, etc. It's very clear what it means. I appreciate that Christians would not want to accept this and would try to find the gray areas in places that are black and white but at a certain point it just makes your Scripture worthless as a purported book of truth, which is why with the advent of literacy so many are abandoning the church.

You might be a Jew metaphorically if you adopt Christianity in the whiniest metaphorical sense (although that's not what paul meant at all, but rather, the true believer doesn't just affect the trappings of faith but rather adopts its teachings to his very core - menzius made a similar critique of confucianists) but you can't randomly become part of the tribe of fucking Simeon just by adopting Christianity. Surely the grey area ends waaaaay before that.

I advise you to look into judaism or Islam if you want more consistent theology.

[Selurong]

2) according to the new testament which we believe is a crock of lies, sure

Yes, Jews consider the New Testament a crock of lies which BTW were all written by your own fellow Jews...

3) mistranslation, the Hebrew word used is 'young woman' and even if it weren't it wouldn't be proof that Jesus fulfilled the prophecy just because you said so

Whether it's a young woman or a virgin, Christ would still fulfill that prophecy. A virgin is still often is a young woman.

4) lol @ you for believing any of that. It doesn't deserve a rebuttal.

Why doesn't it deserve a rebuttal? Are you afraid that I'm exposing Freemasonry for the Judaizing bullocks that it is? It's mythology is centered on the Solomonic temple and one of the highest grades of Freemasonry, the Knights Kadosh uses Hebrew Nomenclature and it involves desecrating the Papal Tiara.

If you want a conversation about how yes Christianity is indo-european idol worship we can go there, but what it pretends and wants to be is a semitic religion, inheritor of Judaism, that slaughtered the pagans and destroyed Europe.

Hahahah lol. Indo Europeans are the first ones to form a Monotheistic religion. Zoroastrianism is the oldest Monotheistic religion in the world. In fact, before the Babylonian exile (After which, the Persians, who are Indo-European came into power and influenced the returning Jews to be more Monotheistic), the Jews were Polytheistic like their Canaanite brothers. Let us even look at the Book of Genesis for evidence shall we?

Genesis 1:26

26Then God said, “Let Us make man in Our image, after Our likeness, to rule over the fish of the sea and the birds of the air and the livestock, and over all the earth itself and every of creature that crawls upon it.”

Also, the Canaanites called their God "El" just like the Jews then who also call their God "El"

5) 144,000 will be saved, 12,000 from each tribe (revelations). Are you an Israelite? Unlucky - you're fucked. Again only you believe in the NT so quoting it at non-Christians won't work.

Lol you're cherry picking, the previous verses before that even extorted the Greco-Roman Christians of Asia minor (The Seven churches of Asia) to be faithful to Christ. God, speaking to John of Revelation even condemned Jews there as the synagogue of Satan lol. Also, wasn't there a civil war between Israel (Made up of 10 tribes) and Judah (Made up of 2 Tribes) and that you hated each other's guts for a long time? If God were to restore ancient Israel he would also restoring the 10 other tribes (scattered through-out the world and admixed with other populations mostly the gentiles) as well as Judah.

Those prophecies have already been realised. They don't apply to Jerusalem today. They apply to the Jewish nation (or 'yisrael' - Israel) and Jewish institutions of the time which were subsequently punished in those very books. Stop trying to make them fit your narrative, if they had wanted to say Jerusalem they would have written that.

Yes, those prophecies were realized and then some... Rome destroyed Jerusalem and that was not prophesized by the Old Testament prophets but it was prophesied by Christ.

Also, the Book of Revelation undeniably identifies Jerusalem as the whore of Babylon itself just by this quote...

Revelation 18:20,24

24 we heard that

“Rejoice over her, heaven, you holy ones, apostles, and prophets. For God has judged your case against her.“

“In her was found the blood of prophets and holy ones and all who have been slain on the earth.”

Rome, never had any Prophets (An Old Testament Term) ever sent to her, only Apostles as in Peter and Paul. Whereas, Jerusalem had BOTH Apostles and Prophets stoned to death upon her gates...

No idea what you mean by Zionist. I support Israel's existence, it's just not my country.

I thought you had leanings toward the Neturei Karta. Never mind, carry on.

[Longbowman]

Yes, Jews consider the New Testament a crock of lies which BTW were all written by your own fellow Jews...

And as we all know, Jews are liars and cheats so the bible can be dismissed as a work of dishonesty.

Whether it's a young woman or a virgin, Christ would still fulfill that prophecy. A virgin is still often is a young woman.

The point is that authors shimmied in a false fact about Jesus' life to have it fit their misinterpretation of a prophecy proving they're dishonest dealers. There are several other direct examples of this in the NT.

Why doesn't it deserve a rebuttal? Are you afraid that I'm exposing Freemasonry for the Judaizing bullocks that it is? It's mythology is centered on the Solomonic temple and one of the highest grades of Freemasonry, the Knights Kadosh uses Hebrew Nomenclature and it involves desecrating the Papal Tiara.

Your tinfoil hat is slipping.

Hahahah lol. Indo Europeans are the first ones to form a Monotheistic religion. Zoroastrianism is the oldest Monotheistic religion in the world. In fact, before the Babylonian exile (After which, the Persians, who are Indo-European came into power and influenced the returning Jews to be more Monotheistic), the Jews were Polytheistic like their Canaanite brothers. Let us even look at the Book of Genesis for evidence shall we?

Genesis 1:26

26Then God said, “Let Us make man in Our image, after Our likeness, to rule over the fish of the sea and the birds of the air and the livestock, and over all the earth itself and every of creature that crawls upon it.”

Also, the Canaanites called their God "El" just like the Jews then who also call their God "El"

Imagine being a monk that says this.

Listen, Einstein, the Zoroastrian religion doesn't actually predate Judaism or more specifically the monotheistic cult of Yah that dates to at least the 10th century BC and definitely not the monotheistic religion instituted by Akhenaten in Egypt in the 15th century BC. Yes, the bible makes it obvious most Israelites were pagans until the first exile, that's not relevant to the discussion. Either way it's totally irrelevant to the point you're deliberately avoiding which is that whether or not some of the browner indo Europeans were monotheists, Christianity borrowed heavily and deliberately from European paganism, from your holidays (Christmas, Easter) to many of your early saints to your church (pontifex used to be pagan!) To your actual god (the trinity). You're like 90% pagan 10% judaised. Except Jehovah's witnesses of course.

Lol you're cherry picking, the previous verses before that even extorted the Greco-Roman Christians of Asia minor (The Seven churches of Asia) to be faithful to Christ. God, speaking to John of Revelation even condemned Jews there as the synagogue of Satan lol. Also, wasn't there a civil war between Israel (Made up of 10 tribes) and Judah (Made up of 2 Tribes) and that you hated each other's guts for a long time? If God were to restore ancient Israel he would also restoring the 10 other tribes (scattered through-out the world and admixed with other populations mostly the gentiles) as well as Judah.

Those Christians were Jewish Christians (is Israelites). Nothing in revelations contradicts the excerpt I quoted. I'm surprised a monk doesn't know that.

Yes, Israel will be redeemed when the Messiah comes, Jews know this and await it. The differences between Judah and Israel were settled in the 7th century BC.

Yes, those prophecies were realized and then some... Rome destroyed Jerusalem and that was not prophesized by the Old Testament prophets but it was prophesied by Christ.

Unlikely.

Also, the Book Revelation undeniably identifies Jerusalem as the whore of Babylon itself just by this quote...

Revelation 18:20,

24 we heard that

“Rejoice over her, heaven, you holy ones, apostles, and prophets. For God has judged your case against her.“

“In her was found the blood of prophets and holy ones and all who have been slain on the earth.”

Rome, never had any Prophets (An Old Testament Term) ever sent to her, only Apostles as in Peter and Paul. Whereas, Jerusalem had BOTH Apostles and Prophets stoned to death upon her gates...

Nope, still Israel. Face it, you're not relevant.

I thought you had leanings toward the Neturei Karta. Never mind, carry on.

The only people with leanings towards the neturei karta are the 5-6,000 blood traitors who make it up. Even the satmar think they're cunts. Even regular anti Zionist Jews think they're cunts. Their opposition to Israel's existence is purely based on their religious understanding of certain prophecies.

[Selurong]

Obviously but Christians are delusional. The excerpt literally says 12,000 from gad, asher, etc. It's very clear what it means. I appreciate that Christians would not want to accept this and would try to find the gray areas in places that are black and white but at a certain point it just makes your Scripture worthless as a purported book of truth, which is why with the advent of literacy so many are abandoning the church.

You might be a Jew metaphorically if you adopt Christianity in the whiniest metaphorical sense (although that's not what paul meant at all, but rather, the true believer doesn't just affect the trappings of faith but rather adopts its teachings to his very core - menzius made a similar critique of confucianists) but you can't randomly become part of the tribe of fucking Simeon just by adopting Christianity. Surely the grey area ends waaaaay before that.

And in that same book, John, a Jew, condemns fellow Jews as the "Synagogue of Satan". And BTW as a percentage many more Jews have become irreligious than Christians becoming irreligious...

I advise you to look into judaism or Islam if you want more consistent theology.

Loooool Judaism and Islam having a consistent theology????? Hahahah don't make me laugh.

In the Book of Genesis, when God created Man he said he was an us... (He was called "Elohim" a plural form of a word) So much for the vaunted Jewish Monotheism (Which was actually a Persian influence which affected the later books of the Jews). Also,you guys actually replaced your Canaanite God "El" with post-exilic God "Yah" or "Yahweh". It doesn't bother you to replace your Gods willy-nilly in your Canon whatever, but when Christ the Alpha and Omega, with his supreme act of humility (Abandoning the glory of heaven to incarnate in human form) to visit his own people, you reject him because you believe that noooo God cannot possibly incarnate as man (When for God anything is possible).

Your fellow Semitics, the Muslims are even more theologically inconsistent than you are. They say that if there are problems in the Quran they should refer to the people of the book, Christians or Jews since we have authority...

Muslims cannot consistently maintain that the Scriptures delivered previously have been corrupted or lost, since the Qur’an appears to assume that these Scriptures are still with the “people of the book” (Christians and Jews). The case here is strong and the implications difficult to escape. Let’s take a look at some of these texts in the order that they appear in the Qur’an.

Surah Al-Baqara 91: “When it is said to them, “Believe in what Allah has revealed,” they say, “We believe in what has been revealed to us” — and they deny what is beyond it, whereas that is the truth which confirms what is with them. Say, “Why then have you been slaying the prophets of Allah earlier, if you were believers?””

This verse contends that the Scriptures previously revealed by Allah (i.e. the Torah and Injil[Gospel]) are “with them” (i.e. the people of the Book) at the time of the writing revealing of the Qur’an in the seventh century. If the Jews and Christians that the Qur’an is addressing didn’t have access to these Scriptures, the verse makes no sense.