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Thread: Are Hungarians descended from Scythians?

  1. #301
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    Quote Originally Posted by Arborean View Post
    Very interesting. Is it basal M417/or Z93 or something?
    It's R1a-M198>YP1051.
    In Serbian forum "Poreklo" there is a thread about this Mijak branch of R1a. "Мијаци и стара R1a" means Mijaks and old R1a https://www.poreklo.rs/forum/index.php?topic=904.0
    Old R1a means that is pre-Slavic, there is a high possibility for that.
    Read if you have translator.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Pribislav View Post
    It's R1a-M198>YP1051.
    In Serbian forum "Poreklo" there is a thread about this Mijak branch of R1a. "Мијаци и стара R1a" means Mijaks and old R1a https://www.poreklo.rs/forum/index.php?topic=904.0
    Old R1a means that is pre-Slavic, there is a high possibility for that.
    Read if you have translator.
    Very cool! thats some old ass R1a. Didn't think basal clades of M198 had any modern peoples. According to Yfull theres a Scottish person.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Arborean View Post
    Very cool! thats some old ass R1a. Didn't think basal clades of M198 had any modern peoples. According to Yfull theres a Scottish person.
    I don't know much about that branch of R1a.

    R1a was present in the Balkans before Slavs without doubt. Many IE people settled in the Balkans before Slavs. It's not posible that all R1 was R1b in the Balkans in ancient time.
    Vast majority of R1a today in the Balkans is from Slavs, but not all for sure.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Pribislav View Post
    I don't know much about that branch of R1a.

    R1a was present in the Balkans before Slavs without doubt. Many IE people settled in the Balkans before Slavs. It's not posible that all R1 was R1b in the Balkans in ancient time.
    Vast majority of R1a today in the Balkans is from Slavs, but not all for sure.
    They found M417 in Neolithic Ukraine. So, I agree M417 was probably common, at least in Thracians/Dacians. We know at least Z93 was found in a Thracian. To be truthful we still don't have ancient M458(sadly these guys practiced alot of cremation). For all we know Z280/M458 could be found in some ancient samples though I imagine they would be basal. There could have been back migrations, with the younger clades of these lineages occurring as a result of the ethnogenesis of the Proto-Slavs. the clades common in Slavic R1a for instance could be Slavic founder effects even. If its true as some claim that Proto-Thracian/Proto-Dacian were close to Proto-Balto-Slavic. Then we can hyopthesize somewhere along the line that some variety of R1a intersected these lines at a common origin, with Proto-Slavs possibly descended from a Northern cousin of Proto-Thracian/Proto-Dacian that only migrated to the Balkans later, whilst the lines of distantly related Dacian/Thracian would have mostly died out. The modern distribution of some of these lines only tells us where they common today.

    In other words Proto-Thracians, and Proto-Dacians could have theoretically descended from a source population in common with Proto-Balto-Slavs. While they would have splintered off southwards in antiquity, Proto-Slavs would have developed from a later migration from this source population that upon intermixing with groups within their trajectory, would contribute to the ethnogenesis of Proto-Slavs. At least this is my theory.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Arborean View Post
    They found M417 in Neolithic Ukraine. So, I agree M417 was probably common, at least in Thracians/Dacians. We know at least Z93 was found in a Thracian. To be truthful we still don't have ancient M458(sadly these guys practiced alot of cremation). For all we know Z280/M458 could be found in some ancient samples though I imagine they would be basal. There could have been back migrations, with the younger clades of these lineages occurring as a result of the ethnogenesis of the Proto-Slavs. the clades common in Slavic R1a for instance could be Slavic founder effects even. If its true as some claim that Proto-Thracian/Proto-Dacian were close to Proto-Balto-Slavic. Then we can hyopthesize somewhere along the line that some variety of R1a intersected these lines at a common origin, with Proto-Slavs possibly descended from a Northern cousin of Proto-Thracian/Proto-Dacian that only migrated to the Balkans later, whilst the lines of distantly related Dacian/Thracian would have mostly died out. The modern distribution of some of these lines only tells us where they common today.

    In other words Proto-Thracians, and Proto-Dacians could have theoretically descended from a source population in common with Proto-Balto-Slavs. While they would have splintered off southwards in antiquity, Proto-Slavs would have developed from a later migration from this source population that upon intermixing with groups within their trajectory, would contribute to the ethnogenesis of Proto-Slavs. At least this is my theory.
    I think that ancient R1a in the Balkans was much destroyed by Romans.
    Romans comited genecide against the Dacians. Also when Romans conquered the Balkans they took many locals in their legions and sented them to wars in distant parts of empire. After the colaps of Roman empire Huns, Goths and Avars killed a lot of people in the Balkans. During the middle age there was a few plagues in the Balkans and many people died bacause of that. All these factors reduced ancient pre-Slavic R1a in the Balkans, I would say.

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    yes

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    Quote Originally Posted by The Real View Post
    Cumans were exterminatedby Ottoman and Christian soldiers during the Great Ottoman war in 1686. So the original Cumania reserve area disappeared with it cumans. However descendants Cumans live (as a mixature) until this day in present day Romania Bulgaria Ukraine and Serbia.
    Cuman language disappeared in Hungary in 17th century.

    What Romanians, Serbs, Ukrainians and Bulgarians have to do with Cumans?
    Cumans were Turkic minority in Hungary, they settled to present day southern Hungary in 13th century. They were assimilated by Hungarians. Surname Kun among Hungarians (very common) indicates to the Cuman origin.

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    Kun = former Kohn. This is a Jewish indicator as the Székely surname. None of the Kuns called Kun!

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    Quote Originally Posted by Pribislav View Post
    Cuman language disappeared in Hungary in 17th century.

    What Romanians, Serbs, Ukrainians and Bulgarians have to do with Cumans?
    Cumans were Turkic minority in Hungary, they settled to present day southern Hungary in 13th century. They were assimilated by Hungarians. Surname Kun among Hungarians (very common) indicates to the Cuman origin.
    You don't know much about the history of other nations don't you?
    What Cumans have to do with them?
    Well let me explain you.
    Before there was Vllachia, there was Cumania in present they Romania, and those people didn't just disappeared in thin air.
    The Cumans played major role in the Second Bulgarian-Vlach Empire and many nobles were of Cuman origin.
    Even today there are many toponyms that have the word Cuman in them, like for example Kumanovo.
    My theory is that Gagauzes are descendants of those Cumans and if you look at their DNA, they are not that different than their neighbors.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Aspar View Post
    You don't know much about the history of other nations don't you?
    What Cumans have to do with them?
    Well let me explain you.
    Before there was Vllachia, there was Cumania in present they Romania, and those people didn't just disappeared in thin air.
    The Cumans played major role in the Second Bulgarian-Vlach Empire and many nobles were of Cuman origin.
    Even today there are many toponyms that have the word Cuman in them, like for example Kumanovo.
    My theory is that Gagauzes are descendants of those Cumans and if you look at their DNA, they are not that different than their neighbors.
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kunság

    In Hungary existc surname Kun.
    Kun means Cuman in Hungarian https://www.ancestry.com/name-origin?surname=kun

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