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Thread: J2b2-L283 and Ilyrian colonisation of the Balkans

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    Default J2b2-L283 and Ilyrian colonisation of the Balkans


    The oldest J2b2-L283 sample recovered among ancient DNA samples is a Late Bronze Age (1700-1500 BCE) individual from southern Croatia (Mathieson et al. 2017). His genome possessed about 30% of Steppe admixture and 15% of Eastern Hunter-Gatherer, which suggest a recent arrival from the Steppe. He was accompanied by a woman with similar admixtures, and both possessed typical Pontic-Caspian Steppe mtDNA (I1a1andW3a). The timing, location and admixtures of these samples fit with the Illyrian colonisation of the Dinaric Alps, which is thought to have taken place between 1600 and 1100 BCE. The Illyrians may have been late Steppe migrants from the Volga region that were forced out of the Steppe by the invasion of the northern R1a tribes who established the Srubna culture(from 2000 BCE). Through a founding effect, J2b2-L283 lineages might have considerably increased their original frequency after reaching Illyria.
    https://www.eupedia.com/europe/Haplo...A.shtml#J2b2a1



    Where it was found,







    It peaks today in Albanians, especially Northern Albanians where it makes up atleast 30% of the male lineages, and is almost absent in the rest of the Dinaric Alps where it was found,


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    junior member Feiichy's Avatar
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    Today J2b is only 3% in southern Croatia, where native Illyrian lineages were replaced with Slavic I2a1b and R1a1a haplogroups, and survive in minor percentages.

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    J2b2a-L283 is among the Illyrian lineages that survived, along with R1b-L23 & EV13 that Albanians carry.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Wrong View Post
    J2b2a-L283 is among the Illyrian lineages that survived, along with R1b-L23 & EV13 that Albanians carry.
    Is the albanian language similar to ancient illyrian or a mix betwwen thraco-illyrian etc?

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    500AD map


    J2b2-L283 was still strong in these domains, before the Avars pushed it southwards and then Slavs arrived from Poland with I2a1b-CTS10228 & R1a1a, replacing the Old lineages in Bosnia and onwards.


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    Quote Originally Posted by Livin View Post
    Is the albanian language similar to ancient illyrian or a mix betwwen thraco-illyrian etc?
    Most likely Ilyrian but with some Thracian/Dacian elements.

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    At least several Hellenic scholars like Strabo mentions Illyrians as Cousins of Celts and that they descend from the two brothers.

    I wonder how E1b Albanians and J2 Albanians has anything to do with Celtic people?

    However it is confirmed that Celts were I2 people who were invaded by R1b people (Scandinavians, Germans etc..)

    Also according to Albanian concept of Illyrians, Illyrians would be the only people who were WIPED OUT from their capital city in Sirmium and Singidunum and all other territories, a UNIQUE example in a WHOLE WORLD.

    That's ridiculous. Of course that I2 people are Illyrians, and Southern Poland along with Hungary was Illyrian (Pannonian)

    and I2 in Gaul and all Celtic territories as well as Illyrian was a major haplogroup.

    But I don't want to waste my breath on Albanians who have African Haplogroup claiming to be related to Celts is INSANE.


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    That part of northwestern Italy was a Roman post, with Illyrian soldiers stationed to protect the Empire against the Gauls:



    Huno-Avaro-Slav Bosniensis can't comprehend this fact.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Bosniensis View Post
    At least several Hellenic scholars like Strabo mentions Illyrians as Cousins of Celts and that they descend from the two brothers.

    I wonder how E1b Albanians and J2 Albanians has anything to do with Celtic people?

    However it is confirmed that Celts were I2 people who were invaded by R1b people (Scandinavians, Germans etc..)

    Also according to Albanian concept of Illyrians, Illyrians would be the only people who were WIPED OUT from their capital city in Sirmium and Singidunum and all other territories, a UNIQUE example in a WHOLE WORLD.

    That's ridiculous. Of course that I2 people are Illyrians, and Southern Poland along with Hungary was Illyrian (Pannonian)

    and I2 in Gaul and all Celtic territories as well as Illyrian was a major haplogroup.

    But I don't want to waste my breath on Albanians who have African Haplogroup claiming to be related to Celts is INSANE.

    The map you posted is totally outdated.

    No graves in the Balkans that were found were I2a1b. J2b2 L283 was found.

    In Bosnia was found R1b Z2103 / l23, another common lineage among Albanians today but absent in South Slavs. Several of the Yamnaya samples found in the Steppes belonged to this marker. So it was most likely brought with Indo European expansion.

    I2a1b came most certainly with Slavs. Only I2a2 has been found in Balkan graves and it peaks in Southern Albanians and Greeks but it wasn't from Ilyrians , at least not proto Ilyrians who were largely Indo Europeans.

    The Ilyrians were actually described by many authors to of been related to the Veneti, believed by some to of had Celtic elements. This explains why Albanians on many calculators get North Italy and Veneto. The Ilyrians also mixed with their Greek neighbours. The Ilyrians colonised Italy and Proto Ilyrians settled Northern Italy during the Indo European invasion. This explains why Albanians are like Eastern shifted Italians and just North of mainland Greeks.

    Ilyrians or proto ilyrians were of said to be related to Iranic people and also Germanic people which explains why the Albanian language has been grouped or linked with all these people. Also Balto Slavic and Armenian , an Iranic language. All related from Indo European origin.


    EV13 isn't African but most certainly Caucasoid in origin.

    The rest of the things you said have no arguments or evidence. It's just wishful thinking.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Shqipez View Post
    The map you posted is totally outdated.
    No graves in the Balkans that were found were I2a1b. J2b2 L283 was found.
    In Bosnia was found R1b Z2103 / l23, another common lineage among Albanians today but absent in South Slavs. Several of the Yamnaya samples found in the Steppes belonged to this marker.
    Why are you arguning with a troll ? Waste of time...

    And one correction: R1b L23 was not found in Bosnia, but also in Croatia (east Slavonia) among Vučedol culture burials.


    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vu%C4%8Dedol_culture

    Spread of Vučedol culture on West Balkans, by some scholars considered predecessor of Illyrians

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