J2b2-L283 and Ilyrian colonisation of the Balkans

[Kelmendasi]

No one said you have it straight from Bell Beakers, but its known both Bell Beakers and z2103 came from yamnayas who overwhelgly were r1b-l23 its parent clade and Coon realised before every ydna was known that both Bell Beakers were brachy flat head people and in Albania the same type was dominant.

The Yamna themselves actually were mainly Z2103 although many did have basal L23.

[Wrong]

No one said you have it straight from Bell Beakers, but its known both Bell Beakers and z2103 came from yamnayas who overwhelgly were r1b-l23 its parent clade and Coon realised before every ydna was known that both Bell Beakers were brachy flat head people and in Albania the same type was dominant.

You're disregarding maternal line influence.

These features you mention can be mtDNA-derived in the case of Albanians. R1b-L23 and J2b2 mixed with less northern females, thus the phenotypical changes occured after time.

[IncelSlayer]

The Yamna themselves actually were mainly Z2103 although many did have basal L23.

this is well known, and doesn't change anything i've said.

[Kelmendasi]

this is well known, and doesn't change anything i've said.

Yh, I just thought that you said they were mainly L23* and not Z2103.

[IncelSlayer]

You're disregarding maternal line influence.

These features you mention can be mtDNA-derived in the case of Albanians. R1b-L23 and J2b2 mixed with less northern females, thus the phenotypical changes occured after time.

r1b-l23 did mix(as far as im aware Yamnayas were half EHG-half CHG mainly dark eyed), but not in Europe let alone in any particular case like of albanians.

[Shqipez]

No one said you have it straight from Bell Beakers, but its known both Bell Beakers and z2103 came from yamnayas who overwhelgly were r1b-l23 its parent clade and Coon realised before every ydna was known that both Bell Beakers were brachy flat head people and in Albania the same type was dominant.

I told you hundred times Dinarisation occurs from mixing Alpine with a Meditenarrean , if you actually had read Coon

The second phenomenon revealed by our study is the fact thatwhen Mediterranean racial types are blended in a two to one proportion with Alpines, something totally different from either results, and this product is not in all characters intermediate.The facial breadths are Mediterranean, the nose and face are often elongated, the cranial length reduced to an Alpine dimension, and the breadth similarly increased; at the same time the foramen magnum and the auricular passages retain a metrical position in reference to the anterior landmarks of the cranial and facial skeleton found in the Mediterranean ancestor. The occipital region undergoes a certain degree of flattening, and the nasal bridge, in harmony with this motivation from the rear, becomes prominent.The process described above is one of Dinaricization, and the hybrid types produced by this principle are Dinarics and Armenoids.

It cannot be attributed to a single population.

From France to Macedonia, and from Istanbul to Samarkand, are found populations in which the majority of persons present a characteristic morphology of the head and face; with a brachycephalic skull, often flattish in the occipital region, the foramen magnum and auricular passages set disproportionately far to the rear, the forehead often sloping, the face frequently elongated, and the nose salient and frequently convex. People who possess these characteristics have been lumped together in one or more races; the Dinaric in Europe, the Armenoid in Asia, and the Noric to include the blond varieties. It is biologically unsound, however, to postulate any historic unity for individuals of these so-called races, since they are products not of an historical association but of a biological principle. That principle is as follows: A mixture of a Mediterranean stock with a 33 per cent, more or less, solution of Alpine may bring about a differential inheritance in the majority of the offspring; from the Alpine side is inherited brachycephaly, often greater than that of the Alpine ancestral factor; the dimensions of the pre-auricular part of the head are derived from the long-headed strain, hence the posterior position of the ear; the breadths of the median sagittal sector of the face are inherited from the narrower-faced ancestor, often in exaggerated degree, and this applies especially to the width of the upper segment of the nose and to the interorbital distance; meanwhile the face often becomes longer than in either parent stock, and the nose, in response to the shortening of the antero-posterior length of the entire head, becomes salient. This process occurs in varying degrees with individuals and with local racial entities of different origin. If the solution is saturated either with Alpines or with Mediterraneans, phenotypically pure members of whichever stock is predominant appear in considerable numbers. If the solution is correct, such apparently pure individuals still occur, but with relative infrequence. This principle, studied in this work in reference to whites, applies to hybrids of other races as well.

It may readily be seen that the Dinarics, Norics, and Armenoids have no ethnic or historic unity, but are for the most part parallel results of the same process repeated with similar materials in different places. They are related only insofar as the parent stocks are related. There is one important exception to this rule, however; during the Bronze Age Dinaricized Mediterraneans spread with the knowledge of metal from an eastern Mediterranean source to the western Mediterranean Countries, to central Europe, and to the British Isles. In this instance Dinarics of a Near Eastern variety did actually invade Europe, and their descendants may be distinguished today in countries like England where, owing to the absence of an Alpine substratum, the process of Dinaricization has not been locally at play.

In this and the following plates, an attempt will be made to illustrate degrees and types of Dinaricization throughout the white racial area of the Old World.

Bell Beakers peaks in central and West euros. Albanians get very little of it. We get more steppe and Neolithic. These samples of late bronze age J2b2 and z2103 you're looking at are proto Ilirs, deal with it.

[ValarMorghulis]

[IncelSlayer]

I told you hundred times Dinarisation occurs from mixing Alpine with a Meditenarrean , if you actually had read Coon



It cannot be attributed to a single population.




Bell Beakers peaks in central and West euros. Albanians get very little of it. We get more steppe and Neolithic. These samples of late bronze age J2b2 and z2103 you're looking at are proto Ilirs, deal with it.

Lmaoo, never denied its not a process , but you got yours from descend/inheritance from r1b-l23 people who already had it when they invaded Europe, you did not get it randomly from neolitics as it would be uncommon like here or in Greece or other parts of Europe were med and alpine are much more common.
And i'll repeat again you didn't have to get it from Bell Beakers explicitly but from your z2103 carriers who were still under yamnayan r1b-l23 from which Bell Beakers too descend, populations which came since then diverged for thousands of years.
Enjoy your yamnyan heritage bro, wasnt this your dream to be from the steppe and native?Well, you're even more native than illyrians.

[Wrong]

I told you hundred times Dinarisation occurs from mixing Alpine with a Meditenarrean , if you actually had read Coon



It cannot be attributed to a single population.



Bell Beakers peaks in central and West euros. Albanians get very little of it. We get more steppe and Neolithic. These samples of late bronze age J2b2 and z2103 you're looking at are proto Ilirs, deal with it.

Agreed.

Obviously proves most of our yDNA had alot of northern admixture and mixed with southern mtDNA. We preferred females swarthier than ourselves from reverse-OWD.

[IncelSlayer]

Agreed.

Obviously proves most of our yDNA had alot of northern admixture and mixed with southern mtDNA. We preferred females swarthier than ourselves from reverse-OWD.

But Yamna were swarty mostly,let alone J2b2,who isnt even yamna.Albanians arent either G2a(white skin mutation occured in Georgia and spread with Neolithic farmers),neither R1a ANE(first blonde hair mutation), neither I(blue eyes).