Roman Historians on Serbs

[Mingle]

Bulgarians were called Mysians, I'm certain of that. Yes, part of the region they live in was called Moesia in antiquity, while Mysia was in Asia Minor. However, we mustn't forget that the Byzantines and other people of that age weren't all knowing and that there were some terms they tended to mix up:





Same thing regarding Paeonia and Pannonia, except this mix-up originates from authors way back during the time of the Roman Empire:

Okay, my bad. Completely forgot that Mysians even existed Interesting those names were used. Also, I looked up the Mysian language and a historical figure connected it to Paeonian. Though that person may have confused Mysian with Moesian.

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[Pribislav]

E1b among Serbians - native Balkanite
I2a - mainly invaders (perhaps not originally Slavs, but still included in Slavic migrations)
R1a - Balto-Slavs in general (in this case Slavs), that's clear
R1b - perhaps some Celts?
N2 - unique branch in world which is just presented among Serbians?

I think that's something like that.

Among Serbs E1b is the highest in Montenegro (if we considered Montenegrins for Serbs), and after that in Southern Serbia. Still there is no any Serbian region where E1b is most dominant. Bosniensis said that in Southern Serbia E1b is the strongest haplogroup. This is not true, in Southern Serbia the strongest is I2a as in all Serbian regions. E1b is on the second place in Southern Serbia.

R1b is only 4-5% among Serbs on average. It's diverse, there is branches BY611, U152 and U106.
There is very few U106, and most of them are from Kosovo. They are descendants of medieval Saxon miners without doubt.
R1b in very weak anong Dinaric Serbs, and it's more common among souther/eastern and Vojvodinian Serbs.

N2 is N-P189.2, this branch is from Piva and Banjani clans in Old Herzegovina (present day western Montenegro). Far origin of this marker is still unknown. In the last time Slavic theory is more and more polular about origin of N-P189.2.
N-P189.2 is the most common among Dinaric Serbs. Reaches the peak among Serbs from Lika and Bosanska Krajina.

R1a is the second strongest haplogroup among Serbs on average.

In some regions on the second place is R1a, and in some is E1b.
Among Serbs from Bosnia, Herzegovina, Krajina (Croatia), Western Serbia, Mačva, Župa and Syrmia R1a is on the second place.
Among Serbs from Southern Serbia, Šumadija, Kosovo, Banat and among Montenegrins E1b is on the second place.

[Dick]

E1b among Serbians - native Balkanite
I2a - mainly invaders (perhaps not originally Slavs, but still included in Slavic migrations)
R1a - Balto-Slavs in general (in this case Slavs), that's clear
R1b - perhaps some Celts?
N2 - unique branch in world which is just presented among Serbians?

I think that's something like that.

it's more complicated than that if you include subclades. Vasojevici E-v13 subclade match with a Polish person and nobody from the Balkans afaik. There's also quite a few new R1b-U106 on the Serbian dna project, probably Saxon or Swabian settlers. Also I1 subclades from Normans, Saxons, Goths, Swabians and even Slavs(I1-M227 which could be a Baltic subclade)

https://www.yfull.com/tree/I-M227/


G2a is obviously Celtic as well and J's from Romans.

[Dick]

N2 is N-P189.2, this branch is from Piva and Banjani clans in Old Herzegovina (present day western Montenegro). Far origin of this marker is still unknown. In the last time Slavic theory is more and more polular about origin of N-P189.2.

This is interesting indeed according to yfull. What's with the Brit?


https://www.yfull.com/tree/N-P189.2/

[Kelmendasi]

it's more complicated than that if you include subclades. Vasojevici E-v13 subclade match with a Polish person and nobody from the Balkans afaik. There's also quite a few new R1b-U106 on the Serbian dna project, probably Saxon or Swabian settlers. Also I1 subclades from Normans, Saxons, Goths, Swabians and even Slavs(I1-M227 which could be a Baltic subclade)

https://www.yfull.com/tree/I-M227/


G2a is obviously Celtic as well and J's from Romans.

Interestingly the Vasojevici clade of E-V13, Y37092, has been found among Greeks and there is an Arbereshe guy that is PH1246 which is ancestral to Y37092 so we don't know if he belongs to Y37092 just yet or if he forms his own group. E-Y37092 on yfull is represented by a Swede from skane https://www.yfull.com/tree/E-Y30977/. The Polish guy belongs to a different clade within PH1246.

[Kelmendasi]

This is interesting indeed according to yfull. What's with the Brit?


https://www.yfull.com/tree/N-P189.2/

Their Ftdna project seems to split the groups by "west" and "east" branches. The western branches include two Englishmen, both from Devon, and a Frenchman. The eastern branches include a Hungarian and South Slavs. I'm not sure how it would've reached England.

[Kelmendasi]

Just found out that the ancestral clade of N-P189.2, N-Y6503, was found in a 9th century BC sample from Hungary that belonged to the Mezőcsát Culture, an Iron Age culture possibly made up of Iranic speakers.

[IncelSlayer]

it's more complicated than that if you include subclades. Vasojevici E-v13 subclade match with a Polish person and nobody from the Balkans afaik. There's also quite a few new R1b-U106 on the Serbian dna project, probably Saxon or Swabian settlers. Also I1 subclades from Normans, Saxons, Goths, Swabians and even Slavs(I1-M227 which could be a Baltic subclade)

https://www.yfull.com/tree/I-M227/


G2a is obviously Celtic as well and J's from Romans.

Wouldn't even read what Pribislav writes.Once he claimed that the E1b in Serbia was brought by montenegrins LMFAOOOOOOOOOOOO there is more E1b in Serbia than there exist montenegrins

[Kelmendasi]

Wouldn't even read what Pribislav writes.Once he claimed that the E1b in Serbia was brought by montenegrins LMFAOOOOOOOOOOOO there is more E1b in Serbia than there exist montenegrins

By percentage there isn't, Montenegro is around 27% E-V13 whilst Serbia is around 20% or less.

[Aspar]

Interestingly the Vasojevici clade of E-V13, Y37092, has been found among Greeks and there is an Arbereshe guy that is PH1246 which is ancestral to Y37092 so we don't know if he belongs to Y37092 just yet or if he forms his own group. E-Y37092 on yfull is represented by a Swede from skane https://www.yfull.com/tree/E-Y30977/. The Polish guy belongs to a different clade within PH1246.

Yeah, probably not Slavic related as the TMRCA with the Polish sample is 4600 ybp.
What I've noticed is that E-Y37092, the same as my subclade, is found in the British isles and Arabian peninsula along with the Balkans.
There are few clades within R1b-L23 and J2 that are also found in all these three world regions.
It's obvious to me that these clades had traveled together and were spread by some ancient people.
But who were those people??