AVE: Spain's high speed nightmare

[The Lawspeaker]

This video was possible thanks to the invaluable collaboration of the Juan de Mariana Institute, an independent institution that investigates public affairs. More about them at: https://www.juandemariana.org In recent decades, Spain has built an extensive high-speed train network. We’re talking about the second largest network on the entire planet and number one when compared to the size of the Spanish population. And there’s an almost total political consensus regarding this infrastructure. The AVE, which is the Spanish network, is almost a source of national pride. However, economic data tell us a very different story. After an investment of almost 60 billion euros, the Spanish network is one of the most underused in the world. What does this mean? Why did Spain embark on a frantic race to master high speed? What role are they playing? In this video, we’ll answer all these questions and bring you closer to the reality of this infrastructure, beyond what Spanish politicians say.

[Tooting Carmen]

High Speed rail is not a problem in and of itself. The main problems (especially in Spain) are (1) you cannot usually just turn up and buy a ticket, because seating is compulsory, effectively making it more like flying and (2) so much money, time and infrastructure are dedicated to the High Speed rail network that the traditional rail network usually becomes neglected in the process.

[The Lawspeaker]

High Speed rail is not a problem in and of itself. The main problems (especially in Spain) are (1) you cannot usually just turn up and buy a ticket, because seating is compulsory, effectively making it more like flying and (2) so much money, time and infrastructure are dedicated to the High Speed rail network that the traditional rail network usually becomes neglected in the process.

I am not sure about Spain but here you'd get an added surcharge if you travel per ICE or Thalys so that makes people avoid them as well. What should be done is

1) to drop all surcharges,
2) get rid of the other, older, intercity services (the high speed train becomes the normal, regular intercity service),
3) get rid of the current ticket purchasing system and introduce a public transportation card system like we have here in the Netherlands (which cannot be used on the high speed network - stupidly enough) and paying by app.
4) research methods to move containers aboard adapted high speed train wagons - thus moving freight transport back to the railways.

[Tooting Carmen]

I am not sure about Spain but here you'd get an added surcharge if you travel per ICE or Thalys so that makes people avoid them as well. What should be done is

1) to drop all surcharges,
2) get rid of the other, older, intercity services (the high speed train becomes the normal, regular intercity service),
3) get rid of the current ticket purchasing system and introduce a public transportation card system like we have here in the Netherlands (which cannot be used on the high speed network - stupidly enough) and paying by app.
4) research methods to move containers aboard adapted high speed train wagons - thus moving freight transport back to the railways.

Yeah, in Spain there is a substantial price difference between AVE trains and slower trains involving the same destinations. (By contrast, in Britain the ticket prices vary more based on the time of day you travel, regardless of the type of train it is).

[The Lawspeaker]

Yeah, in Spain there is a substantial price difference between AVE trains and slower trains involving the same destinations. (By contrast, in Britain the ticket prices vary more based on the time of day you travel, regardless of the type of train it is).

There is the problem: like the other high speed networks (only the Chinese, Japanese and Koreans seem to understand that) it's based on elitism rather than being easy to use for the whole population so they might want to change that and just become the new intercity service. The early German ICE1 trains even had work spaces and a small meeting chamber - thus making it very accessible and attractive for business travellers. And, of course, there should be good catering options and quick connections to neighbouring countries. The general system should revolve around them with local trains and public transport being their feeders - rather than the trains being an entity onto themselves.

[Tenma de Pegasus]

Spanish people like to burn money. Those things happens a lot in Latin America, its sort of a cultural heritage, stupidy politicians are always wasting money for no revelant reason. Argentina in the past, Cuba before Castro, Brazil in 2014 World Cup and 2016 Olympics thanks to Lula and Venezuela most XX century are examples of such behavior.

[The Lawspeaker]

Spanish people like to burn money. Those thinks happens a lot in Latin America, its sort of a cultural heritage, stupidy politicians are always wasting money for no revelant reason. Argentina in the past, Cuba before Castro, Brazil in 2014 World Cup and 2016 Olympics thanks to Lula and Venezuela most XX century are examples of such behavior.

Their Eighty Years War here is a good example of it. Other powers would long since have thought: "this is not going to improve our position here. This is draining our coffers - you know what: screw this job.. let's go home !"

[Tenma de Pegasus]

Their Eighty Years War here is a good example of it. Other powers would long since have thought: "this is not going to improve our position here. This is draining our coffers - you know what: screw this job.. let's go home !"

They also build a big expensive navy to colide with Ireland rocks.


If Im not confuse, my teacher said they used a lot of money of the Portuguese Empire to build this giant Spanish Armada. Even a big part of the sailors were portuguese lifes lost because of them. Iberian Union was certainly a tragedy to Portuguese Coffers.

[The Lawspeaker]

They also build a big expensive navy to colide with Ireland rocks.


If Im not confuse, my teacher said they used a lot of money of the Portuguese Empire to build this giant Spanish Armada. Even a big part of the sailors were portuguese lifes lost because of them. Iberian Union was certainly a tragedy to Portuguese Coffers.

Absolutely. Mentally speaking the Portuguese are more of a mercantile people like the Dutch or the English. This is why the Inquisition (forced onto them by Spain) proved to be so damaging for them.

[Cristiano viejo]

Absolutely. Mentally speaking the Portuguese are more of a mercantile people like the Dutch or the English. This is why the Inquisition (forced onto them by Spain) proved to be so damaging for them.

The day the Dutch have during 250 years a maritime trade like the Manila Galleon we speak about mercantile mentality.