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Thread: Is Kosovo Serbian ?

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    Default Is Kosovo Serbian ?

    Let's ask a historian or any proper history that tells the truth... to this very day no Serb has been able to debunk Mr Noel Malcolm. They have rather insulted him as a response and claim he's being pro Albanian. Telling the truth doesn't make you pro Albanian or anti Serb.


    "Kosovo is Serbia", "Ask any historian" read the unlikely placards, waved by angry Serb demonstrators in Brussels on Sunday. This is rather flattering for historians: we don't often get asked to adjudicate. It does not, however, follow that any historian would agree, not least because historians do not use this sort of eternal present tense.

    History, for the Serbs, started in the early 7th century, when they settled in the Balkans. Their power base was outside Kosovo, which they fully conquered in the early 13th, so the claim that Kosovo was the "cradle" of the Serbs is untrue.

    What is true is that they ruled Kosovo for about 250 years, until the final Ottoman takeover in the mid-15th century. Churches and monasteries remain from that period, but there is no more continuity between the medieval Serbian state and today's Serbia than there is between the Byzantine Empire and Greece.

    Kosovo remained Ottoman territory until it was conquered by Serbian forces in 1912. Serbs would say "liberated"; but even their own estimates put the Orthodox Serb population at less than 25%. The majority population was Albanian, and did not welcome Serb rule, so "conquered" seems the right word.

    But legally, Kosovo was not incorporated into the Serbian kingdom in 1912; it remained occupied territory until some time after 1918. Then, finally, it was incorporated, not into a Serbian state, but into a Yugoslav one. And with one big interruption (the second world war) it remained part of some sort of Yugoslav state until June 2006.

    Until the destruction of the old federal Yugoslavia by Milosevic, Kosovo had a dual status. It was called a part of Serbia; but it was also called a unit of the federation. In all practical ways, the latter sense prevailed: Kosovo had its own parliament and government, and was directly represented at the federal level, alongside Serbia. It was, in fact, one of the eight units of the federal system.

    Almost all the other units have now become independent states. Historically, the independence of Kosovo just completes that process. Therefore, Kosovo has become an ex-Yugoslav state, as any historian could tell you.

    ˇNoel Malcolm is a senior research fellow at All Souls College, Oxford. He is the author of Kosovo: A Short History




    https://www.theguardian.com/world/20.../kosovo.serbia

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    I am a Balkan Turk and i say Kosovo is Albania.

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    Noel Malcolm. The guy who is the head of a British-Albanian friendship society. This would be like asking a Yankees fan his objective opinion on the Yankees-Red Sox rivalry.

    All of this doesn't matter. What matters was the current situation at the time, which was Kosovo was under Serbian government rule. What also does matter is that international law was disregarded. As I told Longbowman - who is an apologist for anything the British are involved in - when you sign the UN charter you agree not to wage war with another nation without approval from the UN and that the nation agrees that UN charter trumps all other treaties (as stated in the charter). There was no approval from the UN for there to be an attack by a NATO member against Serbia. But of course what really mattered wasn't Albanians in Kosovo or Serbs. What mattered to the US government at the time was building the 2nd largest US military base outside of the US in the Balkans as a way to keep tabs on a region it previously didn't have any sway over. The Russians were too busy with their own internal problems to counter this with their own pressure.

    So what is the result other than a US military base being built in Kosovo? Kosovo becoming the epicenter of the European heroin trade, sex trafficking, and basically a society oppressed by former gangsters where if you complain openly your life is threaten and people 'disappeared' if threats weren't enough.

    And the cherry on top? Former camps built to train KLA members by US and British intelligence now being used to train men who wish to fight for ISIS. Kosovo is a hot bed for radical Islamists that the government can't control. There was just a recent article on camps in Kosovo training Islamic militants.

    Great foresight, Clinton & Co.

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    I am Russian-speaking Latvian and I think that Kosovo is Serbia.

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    Depends what you favor, historical right or ethnic criteria. Serbia has historical rights over Kosovo, but it doesn't have ethnic presence.
    On the other hand, Serbia has no historical rights over Vojvodina, but has ethnic presence there.

    In any case I think ethnic criterium is much more relevant.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jana View Post
    Depends what you favor, historical right or ethnic criteria. Serbia has historical rights over Kosovo, but it doesn't have ethnic presence.
    On the other hand, Serbia has no historical rights over Vojvodina, but has ethnic presence there.

    In any case I think ethnic criterium is much more relevant.
    Nope. They dont have historical right. Sorry.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Colonel Frank Grimes View Post
    Noel Malcolm. The guy who is the head of a British-Albanian friendship society. This would be like asking a Yankees fan his objective opinion on the Yankees-Red Sox rivalry.

    All of this doesn't matter. What matters was the current situation at the time, which was Kosovo was under Serbian government rule. What also does matter is that international law was disregarded. As I told Longbowman - who is an apologist for anything the British are involved in - when you sign the UN charter you agree not to wage war with another nation without approval from the UN and that the nation agrees that UN charter trumps all other treaties (as stated in the charter). There was no approval from the UN for there to be an attack by a NATO member against Serbia. But of course what really mattered wasn't Albanians in Kosovo or Serbs. What mattered to the US government at the time was building the 2nd largest US military base outside of the US in the Balkans as a way to keep tabs on a region it previously didn't have any sway over. The Russians were too busy with their own internal problems to counter this with their own pressure.

    So what is the result other than a US military base being built in Kosovo? Kosovo becoming the epicenter of the European heroin trade, sex trafficking, and basically a society oppressed by former gangsters where if you complain openly your life is threaten and people 'disappeared' if threats weren't enough.

    And the cherry on top? Former camps built to train KLA members by US and British intelligence now being used to train men who wish to fight for ISIS. Kosovo is a hot bed for radical Islamists that the government can't control. There was just a recent article on camps in Kosovo training Islamic militants.

    Great foresight, Clinton & Co.
    If you look pass Noels friendship and what not, can you actually criticise his work and tell me where he made any historical errors ? You just don't seem to be able to. The guy goes into myths very well.

    Kosovo was also illegally integrated into Yugoslavia after it's occupation in 1912, colonisation programs took part and mass expulsion of Albanians.

    What led to the war in Kosovo in the 90s however was pure nationalism on Milosovic part. He fired hundreds of thousands of Albanians from their jobs hoping they would leave the area so it could become Serbian. Serbs held the highest positions in Kosovo despite a minority , this also led to the formation of the KLA which most certainly wasn't an American invention considering I am personally from the area and village where the KLA formed. I know why and how it formed.

    Milosovic pretty much dug his own grave. How and why the US was involved is absolutely irrelevant in this matter or if they want it to be an American military base, this makes it Serbian supposedly ?


    Not to mention how Milosovic invented made up stories about the Serbian minority in Kosovo being attacked, he had these made up stories broadcasted on the news in order to cause fear and anger among the population. It's the same tactic the Nazis used for invading Poland.

    Milosovic interest were largely the mines in Kosovo.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Shqipez View Post
    Nope. They dont have historical right. Sorry.
    They do, and Serbian monestaries in Kosovo are witness to that.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Shqipez View Post
    Nope. They dont have historical right. Sorry.
    If you actuall had read the OP. And made some counter arguements. You have no idea about this part of history. You even claimed the Austro Turkish war was a Serbian rebellion when you had Albanian Muslims fighting on the Austrian side and at that time Kosovo had a large Albanian population already.

    The Great migration never had any affect on the population of Kosovo and it wasn't a migration, it's 30 to 40,000 people migrating included people from other areas and not just Kosovo and most certainly they weren't all Serbs considering Serbs weren't the only ones to fight on the Austro side.

    The Nemanjic kingdom held Kosovo for briefly 250 years. Certainly they do not have any more historical right than any other population.

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    If Kosovo is not Serbia, then Kurdistan is not Turkey, RS not Bosnia, Catalonia not Spain...etc...

    But... there are double arcs...... for example, Catalonia is Spain, but Kosovo is not Serbia. Who is clever he will understand.

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