Is R1a-Z93 originally Iranian or Turanian?

**cyberlorian** · 10-07-2018, 10:33 PM

**Proto-Shaman** · 10-15-2018, 10:25 PM

Lyook at these mappings and you'll see what Iranians are, basically Dravidians.

**Vlatko Vukovic** · 10-15-2018, 10:30 PM

Originally Posted by Kipchak Håkan

Lyook at these mappings and you'll see what Iranians are, basically Dravidians.

Ok, i am not going into how Kipchaks looked alike (there are many interpretations), but do you think that proto-Turks (in general) looked like this man?

**Proto-Shaman** · 10-15-2018, 10:38 PM

Originally Posted by Vlatko Vukovic

Ok, i am not going into how Kipchaks looked alike (there are many interpretations), but do you think that proto-Turks (in general) looked like this man?

Proto-Turks didn't have a unique phenotype. Z93 is basically Kipchak, that's it. Azerbaijanis and Turks from eastern Anatolia for example have the most ancient haplotypes of R1a. Original Oghuses looked more like modern Turkmens. Siberian Turks looked more like North American Indians and Siberians. Oghurs looked more like Germanics, Finnics and Ugrians. Karluks looked like a mix of Oghuzes, Kipchaks and Germanics.

**Artek** · 10-16-2018, 07:57 AM

Originally Posted by Kipchak Håkan

Proto-Turks didn't have a unique phenotype. Z93 is basically Kipchak, that's it. Azerbaijanis and Turks from eastern Anatolia for example have the most ancient haplotypes of R1a. Original Oghuses looked more like modern Turkmens. Siberian Turks looked more like North American Indians and Siberians. Oghurs looked more like Germanics, Finnics and Ugrians. Karluks looked like a mix of Oghuzes, Kipchaks and Germanics.

Kurds and turkified Iranic speakers* and not the ancient haplotypes but quite recent YP5018 https://www.yfull.com/tree/R-YP5018/, TMRCA of this "ancient" clade is 2600 years and even if all known R1a Project members tested with a Big Y, an age wouldn't rise beyond 3000-3500 years. It is just a re-expansion of almost-extinct lineage.

**Proto-Shaman** · 10-16-2018, 11:12 AM

Originally Posted by Artek

Kurds and turkified Iranic speakers* and not the ancient haplotypes but quite recent YP5018 https://www.yfull.com/tree/R-YP5018/, TMRCA of this "ancient" clade is 2600 years and even if all known R1a Project members tested with a Big Y, an age wouldn't rise beyond 3000-3500 years. It is just a re-expansion of almost-extinct lineage.

This is of course the Turkic history which has been presented in favor of the old-fashioned Indo-European trend. It is not only ridiculous to connect R1a with with non-Turkic speakers in the oriental world, but also even more ridiculous to put Underhill's cognitive abilities in questions. Ancient haplotypes of R1a among non-Turkic speakers are only found within the sphere of Turkic spiritual route: Brahmins and Arabs. I hope you do realize how pathetic your point of view is. Be happy that I answered to such ignorance at all (no offense). It's over. Latest studies already proved IE to be a collapsing theory.

**zarzian** · 10-16-2018, 11:29 AM

**cyberlorian** · 10-16-2018, 11:49 AM

Originally Posted by zarzian

?

**Yaglakar** · 10-16-2018, 12:46 PM

r1a and all its subclades could be traced back to Turkified Indo-Europeans.

The Hunnu/Xiongnu bottom Q burial belt is where the original proto-Turks originated from (my opinion). They pushed northwards and Turkified r1a carriers.

**Leto** · 10-16-2018, 03:27 PM

Originally Posted by Yaglakar

r1a and all its subclades could be traced back to Turkified Indo-Europeans.

The Hunnu/Xiongnu bottom Q burial belt is where the original proto-Turks originated from (my opinion). They pushed northwards and Turkified r1a carriers.

Hey man, how are your 23andme results?