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Thread: Idea: A new Atlantic Order ?

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    Default Idea: A new Atlantic Order ?

    A new Atlantic Order ?

    It is widely understood that both the EU and NATO have run into trouble. In both cases, there is a problem of Imperial Overstretch and the attempt to unify cultures that don’t belong together. There is also the problem of antagonizing Russia while getting nothing in return and engage in wars that benefit nobody.

    I thus propose an entirely new Atlantic Order that should revolve around the continuation of NATO while focusing on its core countries and core principles. I believe NATO should return within its 1989 territory with the exception of countries outside of Europe and with the unification of Germany under NATO and with the exception of both Greece and Turkey which will be relieved of their duties and membership.

    This Atlantic Order should compose of three elements: Security, Trade and Diplomacy.






    Security.

    For this task, NATO should should continue to fulfill its role as the traditional Atlantic Alliance, while beefing up its own security by setting up a Joint Assets and Research Program (JARP) where the American model of competition for research and armaments purchases is accessible to all NATO countries. In other words: combinations of Western European, American, Canadian and other Allied firms will be free to compete for NATO-wide purchases which will harmonize our defense systems and do away with the myriads of structures and systems we employ today for the most important assets: fighter jets, ammunition, electronics, tanks, helicopters and other aircraft. Members should be requested to add the 2% rule to their constitutions. The Treaty on the Final Settlement with Respect to Germany should be up for renegotiation and Germany should be allowed to expand its armed forces back to its pre-1989 size or (if they choose so) beyond that number. Both Canada, the Netherlands and Germany should be welcomed to join the nuclear club, Australia should also be welcomed to join the same.

    It will be NATO’s role to guarantee both the territorial, social and political integrity against foreign intrusions but also the guarantee and guarantee the neutrality of Central and Eastern Europe, the latter of which will be role shared with Russia. That means that the countries of Central Europe can neither join NATO (or any of its other related organizations) or any Russian organizations.

    Expansion: Even-though there will be no Eastward expansion, NATO’s reach could still become global as we could invite Australia and New Zealand to join our ranks. As the world’s oceans cover some 70% of the planet and our security in Europe is covered by a series of buffer states, NATO will need to seek to protect the world’s vital sealanes by investing heavily in its expeditionary and maritime qualities.

    Western Europe’s resource situation continues to be source of problems and this is why it’s important to look away from Russia by not just continuing to explore their own territory and opt for alternative technologies but to also import from allied countries such as Canada and the United States.






    Trade

    That the EU will collapse is no longer a question of if, but of when and, perhaps, this is only just as well as the EU may well have damaged Europe beyond repair but we can, at least, attempt to make repairs and thus it's time for the EU to go. The demise of the EU will, once more, allow for the individual nations to settle their own affairs in regards to their own needs and traditions but it would be important for our own economic health (as well as our strategic security) to set up a trade block that keeps other players (such as India or China) at bay. I thus propose that the EFTA is to be expanded across the Atlantic into the Trans-Atlantic Free Trade Association (TAFTA) which will cover the same membership as NATO. Some steps may need to be taken in order to protect heritage products and to protect the Western-European wish to keep out genetically modified but those can be written into the treaty and the countries can be free to withdraw such points at any moment. Such a free market approach may also force members like France, Italy, Spain and Portugal to become more effective in their approach towards both industry and agriculture. Various disputes that may arise can be solved by individual nations courts or a court of arbitration.


    Diplomacy.

    It may have become apparent to some that the UN has a deeply anti-white bias and that it may well be a good idea for us to leave the UN and to remove their institutions from our soil in order to prevent them from having any power over us. I therefore propose the re-creation of the League of Nations for the same members as above, as operating under a modified UN Charter that does away with the Security Council. The necessity of each UN institution should be reviewed and, if necessary, copied into a League of Nations institution. Its seats should be on both sides of the Atlantic and with their previous experience, it might be a good idea to move the seats of various services to both New York, Paris and The Hague. Indeed: I think we should actually seek to bar the UN from using the name UN (forcing them to use a different name) as the UN was born out of WWII Allies who also used the same name and this is merely an expansion of that alliance. So the West will become the new UN.

    As for former EU institutions:


    • The EMA (the European version of the U.S Food and Drugs Administration ), European Food Safety Authority and ECDC should be preserved and continue to do the same work and preferably even be merged into one institution so overhead costs can be cut (EHRA European Health and Research Administration). Research should take place at a secure location (preferably somewhere in a cave in the Alps - much like the Svalbard Global Seed Vault (only even more secure) .
    • The roles of the European Union Satellite Centre and the European Union Institute for Security Studies could easily be subsumed by NATO.
    • The role of the Translation Centre for the Bodies of the European Union might as well be taken over by any translation boards in NATO and the rest can be diverted to a new League of Nations and TAFTA
    • The European Space Agency, the European GNSS Agency and the currently proposed EU Agency for the Space Programme, can easily remain existing Western European programs which lean heavily on their NASA counterparts. The same applies to CERN and their U.S counterpart.
    • Europol, the European Police College and Eurojust can easily be reconfigured into a wider Trans-Atlantic role where security services from both sides of the Atlantic can exchange information, coordinate the fight on organized crime and learn from each other's expertise.
    • The European Maritime Safety Agency should continue to be a shared agency of the Western European members of the Atlantic alliance which should allow them to share both data as well as expertise. The EMSA too, should continue to work in close conjunction with their counterparts on the other side of the Atlantic.



    Anyone else got some ideas ?
    Last edited by The Lawspeaker; 10-12-2018 at 10:57 AM.



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  2. #2
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Lawspeaker View Post
    A new Atlantic Order ?

    It is widely understood that both the EU and NATO have run into trouble. In both cases, there is a problem of Imperial Overstretch and the attempt to unify cultures that don’t belong together. There is also the problem of antagonising Russia while getting nothing in return and engage in wars that benefit none.

    I thus propose an entirely new Atlantic Order that should revolve around the continuation of NATO while focussing on its core countries and core principles. I believe NATO should return within its 1989 territory with the exception of countries outside of Europe and with the unification of Germany under NATO and with the exception of both Greece and Turkey which will be relieved of their duties and membership.

    This Atlantic Order should compose of three elements: Security, Trade and Diplomacy.


    Security.

    For this task, NATO should should continue to fulfil its role as the traditional Atlantic Alliance, while beefing up its own security by setting up a Joint Assets and Research Program (JARP) where the American model of competition for research and armaments purchases is to be used NATO Wide. In other words: combinations of Western European, American, Canadian and other allies firms will be free to compete for NATO-wide purchases which will harmonise our defense systems and do away with the myriads of structures and systems we employ today for the most important assets: fighter jets, ammunition, electronics, tanks, helicopters and other aircraft. Members are requested to add the 2% rule to their constitutions. The Treaty on the Final Settlement with Respect to Germany should be up for renegotation and Germany should be allowed to expand its armed forces back to its pre-1989 and (if they choose so) beyond. Both Canada, the Netherlands and Germany should try to opt to join the nuclear club, Australia should also be welcomed to join the same.

    It will be NATO’s role to guarantee both the territorial, social and political integrity against foreign intrusions but also the guarantee and guarantee the neutrality of Central and Eastern Europe, the latter of which will be role shared with Russia. That means that the countries of Central Europe can neither NATO (or any of its other related organisations) or any Russian organisations.

    Expansion: NATO’s expansion will be global as its outreach, while looking away from Central and Eastern Europe an by inviting Australia and New Zealand to join our ranks. As the world’s oceans cover some 70% of the planet and our security in Europe is covered by a series of buffer states, NATO will need to seek to protect the world’s vital sealanes by investing heavily in its expeditionary and maritime qualities.

    Western Europe’s resource situation continues to be source of problems and this is why it’s important to look away from Russia by not just continuing to explore their own territorium and opt for alternative technologies but to also import from allied countries such as Canada and the United States.

    Trade

    That the EU will collapse is no longer a question of if, but of when and, perhaps, this is for the better. This will allow for the individual nations to settle their own affairs in regards to their needs and traditions but it would be important for our own economies (as well as our strategic security) to set up a trade block that keeps other players at bay. I thus propose that the EFTA is to be expanded across the Atlantic into the Trans-Atlantic Free Trade Association (TAFTA) which will cover the same membership as NATO. Some steps may need to be taken in order to protect heritage products and to protect the Western-European wish to keep out genetically modified but those can be written into the treaty and the countries can be free to withdraw such points at any moment. Such a free trade approach may also force members like France, Italy, Spain and Portugal to become more effective in their approach towards both industry and agriculture. Various disputes that may arise can be solved by individual nations courts or a court of arbitration.


    Diplomacy.

    It may have become apparent to some that the UN has a deeply anti-white bias and that it may well be a good idea for us to leave the UN and to remove their institutions from our soil in order to prevent them from having any power over us. I therefore propose the re-creation of the League of Nations for the same members as above, as operating under a modified UN Charter that does away with the Security Council. The necessity of each UN institution should be reviewed and, if necessary, copied into a League of Nations institution. Its seats should be on both sides of the Atlantic and with their previous experience, it might be a good idea to move the seats of various services to both New York, Paris and The Hague. Indeed: I think we should actually seek to bar the UN from using the name UN (forcing them to use a different name) as the UN was born out of WWII Allies who also used the same name and this is merely an expansion of that alliance. So the West will become the new UN.

    Anyone else got some ideas ?
    Well the first fundamental objection would be that the Eastern European and Baltic countries are in NATO because they need protection from Russia. In the light of the events that unfolded in Georgia and Ukraine, it's perfectly rational for Estonia or Lithuania to want to be in NATO. Hungary had its uprising in 1956 against being in the Soviet sphere of influence, Czech Republic in 1968.

    To think that we could "share" the security organization over these countries with Russia is quite frankly ridiculous. Also, it's not like we have to fear Russia. Russian economy is the size of Benelux (not able to sustain any war - look how sluggish they are in the Ukraine) and its demographic trends are even more worrying.

    I love the ordinary Russian people but I see no reason to bow down to their oligarchic class and stimulate their ambitions to flex muscles beyond their borders when they already have the biggest country in the world and should focus their efforts internally.

    (I even have some distant Russian ancestry by the way, nothing against fellow Russians).

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    Quote Originally Posted by Caveat Emptor View Post
    Well the first fundamental objection would be that the Eastern European and Baltic countries are in NATO because they need protection from Russia. In the light of the events that unfolded in Georgia and Ukraine, it's perfectly rational for Estonia or Lithuania to want to be in NATO. Hungary had its uprising in 1956 against being in the Soviet sphere of influence, Czech Republic in 1968.

    To think that we could "share" the security organization over these countries with Russia is quite frankly ridiculous. Also, it's not like we have to fear Russia. It's economy is the size of Benelux (not able to sustain any war - look how sluggish they are in the Ukraine) and its demographic trends are even more worrying.

    I love the ordinary Russian people but I see no reason to bow down to their oligarchic class and stimulate their ambitions to flex muscles beyond their borders when they already have the biggest country in the world and should focus their efforts internally.

    (I even have some distant Russian ancestry by the way, nothing against fellow Russians).
    I just don't think we should risk our lives for these people while antagonizing Russia. NATO promised not to expand East and I think we should keep that promise so we may live in peace and if that comes at the expense of Central Europe, then I don't really care. As for the Russians: they should lose any leverage in Western Europe. We are pulling out of Central Europe and bankrupting Russia at the same time because they simply will have no money to spend and nothing to spend it on (defense budgets). Central Europe will be left Finlandised by both us and the Russians.



    Wake up and smell the coffee.


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    Updated.



    Wake up and smell the coffee.


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    Quote Originally Posted by The Lawspeaker View Post
    A new Atlantic Order ?
    I believe NATO should return within its 1989 territory
    That's almost exatly situation before wars, except Germany. And the experience shows that Western Europe is very vunlerable in this configuration either economically and militarily as well. Also, no one knows what are the challenges lie ahead. That might be some alliance of giant aggressive states with tyrannical type of power which can be more effective in the short run and quick in decision making. Its much better if you're big and strong, than you're small, weak and depend on some one else
    DE OPPRESSO LIBER


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    Quote Originally Posted by Caveat Emptor View Post
    Well the first fundamental objection would be that the Eastern European and Baltic countries are in NATO because they need protection from Russia. In the light of the events that unfolded in Georgia and Ukraine, it's perfectly rational for Estonia or Lithuania to want to be in NATO. Hungary had its uprising in 1956 against being in the Soviet sphere of influence, Czech Republic in 1968.

    To think that we could "share" the security organization over these countries with Russia is quite frankly ridiculous. Also, it's not like we have to fear Russia. Russian economy is the size of Benelux (not able to sustain any war - look how sluggish they are in the Ukraine) and its demographic trends are even more worrying.

    I love the ordinary Russian people but I see no reason to bow down to their oligarchic class and stimulate their ambitions to flex muscles beyond their borders when they already have the biggest country in the world and should focus their efforts internally.

    (I even have some distant Russian ancestry by the way, nothing against fellow Russians).
    Russia is very powerful, don't underestimate them.





    Russia is the second strongest military power in the World:
    https://www.globalfirepower.com/coun...ntry_id=russia

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    Quote Originally Posted by Fantomas View Post
    That's almost exatly situation before wars, except Germany. And the experience shows that Western Europe is very vunlerable in this configuration either economically and militarily as well. Also, no one knows what are the challenges lie ahead. That might be some alliance of giant aggressive states with tyrannical type of power which can be more effective in the short run and quick in decision making. Its much better if you're big and strong, than you're small, weak and depend on some one else
    We could keep the Baltic States, Slovenia, Croatia and invite in Sweden, Austria and Finland though. Maybe a "Global Nato" with Japan, Australia, Singapore, Taiwan and New Zealand.



    Wake up and smell the coffee.


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    Actually: the Russians are very vulnerable - it's the same as during the latter stages of the Cold War: they have a lot of propaganda but they are still building up. The moment we drop their lifeline (trade - mainly in natural resources) Their entire economy comes crashing down. Also: they need to import a lot. Sell it to China instead.



    Wake up and smell the coffee.


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    Why boot out Greece, Germany, and Spain?


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    In this video we deal with the question:Is Russia European? And we analyze the place Russia takes in the Europe of today. Like our content? Donate so we can create more and better videos. All support is greatly appreciated! goo.gl/Hi8o7P

    About the current strained relationship between Russia and Europe

    Should we keep NATO as it is, or should Europe create its own army? This video offers a future prospect for our continent's defence.



    Wake up and smell the coffee.


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